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The Gloves Are Off?
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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 8872035" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>Okay, but <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-gloves-are-off.694054/post-8871021" target="_blank">earlier in the thread</a> you objected to the idea that a middling result on a roll to detect contact poison would mean that "the PC doesn't think to take their gloves off in time, and the poison seeps through them," on the grounds that that was a violation of player agency. So is that not an issue of the PC accepting consequences ahead of time? Or does the paradigm change if the player doesn't know what's happening but is still allowed a roll of realize/affect the scenario in question? Because the original idea that you said violated agency doesn't seem like it conflicts with what you've posted here.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, I want to point out that this particular line of discussion was brought up with regard to the idea that a player who receives a roll to notice a contact poison, and gets a "middling" result has still been affected because they didn't realize it was seeping through their gloves, was a violation of the player's agency. In that regard, the idea was presented as being that the roll and its adjudicated results were still insufficient to protect the player's agency, insofar as them meaning that something bad had happened to the PC (which the player presumably didn't want to happen).</p><p></p><p>Now, if you want to define "agency" in this context as "attempting to do anything" (insofar as your own PC goes), and not with regard to what happens to them, that's certainly a reasonable way to look at the issue. But with regard to the topic under discussion, it's only somewhat germane to this thread; the idea that the PC has agency has been brought up in a context that is, at best, orthogonal to that. Hence the issue of Schrodinger's gloves and what their potential existence means for the PC that opened the contact poison-smeared chest.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not until recently, but this is a push that seems to be gaining traction in certain circles (largely as an outgrowth of an increased focus on narrativism, at least as I've seen it).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 8872035, member: 8461"] Okay, but [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-gloves-are-off.694054/post-8871021']earlier in the thread[/URL] you objected to the idea that a middling result on a roll to detect contact poison would mean that "the PC doesn't think to take their gloves off in time, and the poison seeps through them," on the grounds that that was a violation of player agency. So is that not an issue of the PC accepting consequences ahead of time? Or does the paradigm change if the player doesn't know what's happening but is still allowed a roll of realize/affect the scenario in question? Because the original idea that you said violated agency doesn't seem like it conflicts with what you've posted here. Again, I want to point out that this particular line of discussion was brought up with regard to the idea that a player who receives a roll to notice a contact poison, and gets a "middling" result has still been affected because they didn't realize it was seeping through their gloves, was a violation of the player's agency. In that regard, the idea was presented as being that the roll and its adjudicated results were still insufficient to protect the player's agency, insofar as them meaning that something bad had happened to the PC (which the player presumably didn't want to happen). Now, if you want to define "agency" in this context as "attempting to do anything" (insofar as your own PC goes), and not with regard to what happens to them, that's certainly a reasonable way to look at the issue. But with regard to the topic under discussion, it's only somewhat germane to this thread; the idea that the PC has agency has been brought up in a context that is, at best, orthogonal to that. Hence the issue of Schrodinger's gloves and what their potential existence means for the PC that opened the contact poison-smeared chest. Not until recently, but this is a push that seems to be gaining traction in certain circles (largely as an outgrowth of an increased focus on narrativism, at least as I've seen it). [/QUOTE]
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