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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8872553" data-attributes="member: 4937">Fine, how would you state what is actually at stake?For the record, my dichotomy isn't remotely false.&nbsp; It has to do with what the dominate aesthetics of play at the table are - for example Challenge vs. Fantasy can frequently be in tension because failure interferes with Fantasy but is required for satisfying Challenge.&nbsp; And yet, I don't think it matters what the poison does.&nbsp; If the poison is a lethal trap like say Oil of Black Lotus, then very likely the party is high enough level to have the resources to survive what Oil of Black Lotus does.&nbsp; But if not, then it still doesn't matter.&nbsp; If what is at stake is the life of the player character, death no save if they don't have gloves on, it really doesn't matter.&nbsp; We can ask later why the GM has put himself in this situation by having a boring but lethal trap, and maybe the GM has good reasons and maybe he doesn't, but fundamentally the resolution method here if it isn't going to be based on metagamey considerations like, &quot;What do I want to have happen?&quot;, isn't going to care what the poison does.&nbsp; And if it is based on considerations like, &quot;What do I want to have happen?&quot;, then you have to accept the consequences of that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8872553, member: 4937"] Fine, how would you state what is actually at stake? For the record, my dichotomy isn't remotely false. It has to do with what the dominate aesthetics of play at the table are - for example Challenge vs. Fantasy can frequently be in tension because failure interferes with Fantasy but is required for satisfying Challenge. And yet, I don't think it matters what the poison does. If the poison is a lethal trap like say Oil of Black Lotus, then very likely the party is high enough level to have the resources to survive what Oil of Black Lotus does. But if not, then it still doesn't matter. If what is at stake is the life of the player character, death no save if they don't have gloves on, it really doesn't matter. We can ask later why the GM has put himself in this situation by having a boring but lethal trap, and maybe the GM has good reasons and maybe he doesn't, but fundamentally the resolution method here if it isn't going to be based on metagamey considerations like, "What do I want to have happen?", isn't going to care what the poison does. And if it is based on considerations like, "What do I want to have happen?", then you have to accept the consequences of that. [/QUOTE]

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