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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 8872952" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>Yeah, a lot of that was an attempt at niche protection, as I recall. The idea was that the rogue was supposed to be the skill monkey who had a lot of non-combat functionality. How well that worked is going to depend on how much people liked that idea, but I think in practice it was a source of more frustration than anything else. It ran counter to the current trend of trying to make a class simply be <em>better</em> at its role than other classes, as opposed to having those other classes be expressly <em>worse</em> at those things; a subtle distinction, but one that a lot of players seem cognizant of.</p><p></p><p>I'm not familiar with "infinite dragons," but I think that kind of determination is more than "just" getting some damage on the PC. When you play under the auspices of "rulings, not rules," these kinds of things become de facto house rules, where the DM needs to anticipate unintended consequences. That can lead to a conservative mindset on the DM's part, and so it's understandable that they'd be less than permissive.</p><p></p><p>I'm reminded of an old anecdote (which I can't source) about how TSR once put out a survey asking how DMs felt about Basic D&D and Advanced D&D. They were shocked to find that more DMs found Basic D&D to be difficult to run, despite its relative lack of rules compared to AD&D. On further examination, it turned out that having fewer rules put more of a burden on the DM to adjudicate things; having the books do the proverbial heavy lifting was something that DMs appreciated.</p><p></p><p>Well, as mentioned above, that struck me as an attempt at niche protection. You can say that it didn't work, but the attempt was at least understandable, even if the results were less than stellar. The barbarian wasn't <em>supposed</em> to be the guy whose critical eye discerned the cleverly-disguised trap. He was supposed to be the guy who powered through it, took the hit, and kept going.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 8872952, member: 8461"] Yeah, a lot of that was an attempt at niche protection, as I recall. The idea was that the rogue was supposed to be the skill monkey who had a lot of non-combat functionality. How well that worked is going to depend on how much people liked that idea, but I think in practice it was a source of more frustration than anything else. It ran counter to the current trend of trying to make a class simply be [I]better[/I] at its role than other classes, as opposed to having those other classes be expressly [I]worse[/I] at those things; a subtle distinction, but one that a lot of players seem cognizant of. I'm not familiar with "infinite dragons," but I think that kind of determination is more than "just" getting some damage on the PC. When you play under the auspices of "rulings, not rules," these kinds of things become de facto house rules, where the DM needs to anticipate unintended consequences. That can lead to a conservative mindset on the DM's part, and so it's understandable that they'd be less than permissive. I'm reminded of an old anecdote (which I can't source) about how TSR once put out a survey asking how DMs felt about Basic D&D and Advanced D&D. They were shocked to find that more DMs found Basic D&D to be difficult to run, despite its relative lack of rules compared to AD&D. On further examination, it turned out that having fewer rules put more of a burden on the DM to adjudicate things; having the books do the proverbial heavy lifting was something that DMs appreciated. Well, as mentioned above, that struck me as an attempt at niche protection. You can say that it didn't work, but the attempt was at least understandable, even if the results were less than stellar. The barbarian wasn't [I]supposed[/I] to be the guy whose critical eye discerned the cleverly-disguised trap. He was supposed to be the guy who powered through it, took the hit, and kept going. [/QUOTE]
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