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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8874228" data-attributes="member: 93670">check is  defined...[spoiler="in 3.x"]SKILL CHECKSA skill check takes into account a character’s training (skill rank),natural talent (ability modifier), and luck (the die roll). It may alsotake into account his or her race’s knack for doing certain things(racial bonus) or what armor he or she is wearing (armor checkpenalty), or a certain feat the character possesses, among otherthings. For instance, a character who has the Skill Focus feat (page100) related to a certain skill gets a +3 bonus on all checks involvingthat skill.To make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add your character’s skillmodifier for that skill. The skill modifier incorporates the character’sranks in that skill and the ability modifier for that skill’s key ability,plus any other miscellaneous modifiers that may apply, includingracial bonuses and armor check penalties. The higher the result, thebetter. Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 isnot an automatic failure.[/spoiler][hr][/hr][spoiler="in 5e"]ABILITY CHECKThe Ability Check is one of three types of d20Tests. The rules often call for an Ability Check,and the DM can also call for an Ability Check,determining which ability to use when a creatureattempts something (other than an Attack Roll ora Saving Throw) that has a chance of meaningfulfailure. When the outcome is uncertain andnarratively interesting, the dice determine theresults. The Ability Check has the following specialrules.SKILLSWhen you make an Ability Check, the rules or theDM determines whether a Skill Proficiency isrelevant to the check. If you have a relevant SkillProficiency, you can add your Proficiency Bonusto the roll. For example, if a rule refers to aStrength Check (Acrobatics or Athletics), you canadd your Proficiency Bonus to the check if youhave Acrobatics or Athletics Proficiency.ACTION REQUIREDMaking an Ability Check requires you to take anAction unless a rule says otherwise. Several ofthe named Actions—such as Hide andInfluence—include Ability Checks. The DM may override this requirement andallow a particular Ability Check to be made aspart of a Bonus Action or as no Action at all.DIFFICULTY CLASSThe DM determines the Difficulty Class of anAbility Check and can override a DC specified inthe rules. The Typical Difficulty Class tableshows the most common DCs. The default DC for a check is 15, and it is rarelyworth calling for an Ability Check if the DC is aslow as 5, unless the potential failure isnarratively interesting.TYPICAL DIFFICULTY CLASSTask Difficulty DCVery Easy 5Easy 10Medium 15Hard 20Very Hard 25Nearly Impossible 30[/spoiler][hr][/hr][spoiler="in 6e"] [HR][/HR]ABILITY CHECKThe Ability Check is one of three types of d20Tests. The rules often call for an Ability Check,and the DM can also call for an Ability Check,determining which ability to use when a creatureattempts something (other than an Attack Roll ora Saving Throw) that has a chance of meaningfulfailure. When the outcome is uncertain andnarratively interesting, the dice determine theresults. The Ability Check has the following specialrules.SKILLSWhen you make an Ability Check, the rules or theDM determines whether a Skill Proficiency isrelevant to the check. If you have a relevant SkillProficiency, you can add your Proficiency Bonusto the roll. For example, if a rule refers to aStrength Check (Acrobatics or Athletics), you canadd your Proficiency Bonus to the check if youhave Acrobatics or Athletics Proficiency.ACTION REQUIREDMaking an Ability Check requires you to take anAction unless a rule says otherwise. Several ofthe named Actions—such as Hide andInfluence—include Ability Checks. The DM may override this requirement andallow a particular Ability Check to be made aspart of a Bonus Action or as no Action at all.DIFFICULTY CLASSThe DM determines the Difficulty Class of anAbility Check and can override a DC specified inthe rules. The Typical Difficulty Class tableshows the most common DCs. The default DC for a check is 15, and it is rarelyworth calling for an Ability Check if the DC is aslow as 5, unless the potential failure isnarratively interesting.TYPICAL DIFFICULTY CLASSTask Difficulty DCVery Easy 5Easy 10Medium 15Hard 20Very Hard 25Nearly Impossible 30 [/spoiler][hr][/hr]and your attempt to redefine it as a mere requirement of slot level is entirely unreasonable.This is either flat wrong or a stellar example of the painful splitting of hairs caused by "natural language" frequently robs GMs of the ability to convey clear & concise meaning with clear & concise wording.   Checks are a term that is fairly well accepted as a specific thing throughout the ttrpg community and nearly every editionof d&d other than 5e.  Thanks to natural language and a lack of well defined terms we need to hash out if some form of check like a skill check with a d20 roll is meaningfully different from a logic flow gating where counters Pell needs to be cast at the same slot level or higher.  Luckily 6e is already improving this gm kneecap ping self inflicted wound with "d20 checks" as a specifically defined subset of "d20 tests.With that basic terminology settled we can avoid a long winding discussion over If the meaning of defined terms is a subjective matter of personal opinion or not and just move on to why you rarely saw players counterspell in 3.x but see it regularly in 5e. On the topic of how often conterspell is used now vrs then, it shouldn't be ignored that counterspell in 5e went from a specific readied action to a playloop violating retcon reaction  that does not even cost an action† to nullify an opponent's action.  Of course removing questions like  "do I think they will cast a spell?" and "do I think that the spell they are going to cast is worth burning my action to maybe counter?" is going to dramatically lower the bar for counterspell to be cast regularly.  This thread has been filled with statements about how the gm should telegraph things more to support the desires of a player who didn't notice "sufficient telegraphing" prior to step2 in the playloop  to avoid locking in fiction resolved by completed rolls that have already been made & tallied during step3 of the play loop in case a player uses a reaction ability to retcon them outside of their turn in step3...  Perhaps your observation of counterspell nonuse is on you simply failing to "sufficiently telegraph" thingds like dangerous casters during steps 1 & 3 the GM is responsible for?  Many experienced GMs do that by sprinkling in phrases like "lord bbeg is a skilled and dangerous wizard/sorcerer, be on your guard for his signature $spell" and in combat actions with phrases like " the lich looks like it's gearing up to cast another spell after laying down that wall/web/etc spell it just dropped" where & when appropriate.  Alternately, perhaps you did that kind of thing & your players simply did not often feel that counterspelling a spellcaster as a matter of reflex to be worth the opportunity cost of a readied action as often as it is in 5e given how far the bar has been lowered.  I thought that quoting the whole entry in a for the old counterspell would make the rule "sufficiently telegraphed" rand avoid drawing exclusively on everyone's memories.  spoiler (which you also quoted) so [ispoiler]"You do this by choosing the ready action (page 160). In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell." [/ispoiler] is already established as a "sufficiently telegraphed" thing rather than a thing we need to make an effort to recall. 5e's counterspell has no such check or readied action requirement * Before anyone asks why I left out counterspell in 2e.  It may have been in a splatbook/supplement of some form but my memory along with  the phb & dmg don't appear to have any counterspelling other than some specific spells saying they counter each other,†"reaction" may be a type of action but it is not an "action", natural language strikes again</blockquote>

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