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<blockquote data-quote="Mort" data-source="post: 8878098" data-attributes="member: 762"><p>The presented 1-3 is for the exploration pillar, in the exploration section. Combat is simply more involved. It would have been MUCH better if the rules presented a proper combat play loop for DMs to understand the flow. The fact that they don't is one of the problems with the presentation of the rules. Hopefully fixed in the next iteration but I have my doubts.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I will say 5e, despite it's flaws, is a bastion of clarity compared to any edition but 4e (and maybe 3e, but 3e has its issues and if you don't like how PC empowering 5e is then woo boy).</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is the Crux of the disagreement.</p><p></p><p>The results are NOT given, the potential results are given (and only partially, you don't narrate the results of a hit, you say there might be a hit) subject to possible change if the target has something that can change the potential results.</p><p></p><p>The results are fixed when all actions, reactions, etc. are accounted for then move on. But I'm repeating myself.</p><p></p><p>Point is yes, if you don't move to step 3 too early, then no issue.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Interesting, I haven't seen a player get too salty over the DM enforcing rules (I mean RAW Shield could easily still result in a hit, them's the breaks), then again I play (mostly DM) with friends. But even at Gen Con and a few other Cons players took the DMs rulings and moved on.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again I can see how that would be irritatiting, but I don't play with those kinds of people and they wouldn't last at my table. But also, I simply DON'T move on to description until the actions before it are resolved. That way DOES lie madness.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, this just seems foreign to me. It's not like it's difficult to challenge players who use shield a lot! They tend to realize quickly that perhaps they should have saved the spell slot for later. Counterspell is even worse on that front, it starts eating up high level slots FAST. and I do so enjoy the look on a player's face when they realize they've Counterspelled a cantrip (you don't have time to identify a spell AND counterspell it, that rule from Xanathars I like).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mort, post: 8878098, member: 762"] The presented 1-3 is for the exploration pillar, in the exploration section. Combat is simply more involved. It would have been MUCH better if the rules presented a proper combat play loop for DMs to understand the flow. The fact that they don't is one of the problems with the presentation of the rules. Hopefully fixed in the next iteration but I have my doubts. I will say 5e, despite it's flaws, is a bastion of clarity compared to any edition but 4e (and maybe 3e, but 3e has its issues and if you don't like how PC empowering 5e is then woo boy). This is the Crux of the disagreement. The results are NOT given, the potential results are given (and only partially, you don't narrate the results of a hit, you say there might be a hit) subject to possible change if the target has something that can change the potential results. The results are fixed when all actions, reactions, etc. are accounted for then move on. But I'm repeating myself. Point is yes, if you don't move to step 3 too early, then no issue. Interesting, I haven't seen a player get too salty over the DM enforcing rules (I mean RAW Shield could easily still result in a hit, them's the breaks), then again I play (mostly DM) with friends. But even at Gen Con and a few other Cons players took the DMs rulings and moved on. Again I can see how that would be irritatiting, but I don't play with those kinds of people and they wouldn't last at my table. But also, I simply DON'T move on to description until the actions before it are resolved. That way DOES lie madness. Again, this just seems foreign to me. It's not like it's difficult to challenge players who use shield a lot! They tend to realize quickly that perhaps they should have saved the spell slot for later. Counterspell is even worse on that front, it starts eating up high level slots FAST. and I do so enjoy the look on a player's face when they realize they've Counterspelled a cantrip (you don't have time to identify a spell AND counterspell it, that rule from Xanathars I like). [/QUOTE]
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