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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8662963" data-attributes="member: 23751">Because his authority over the game world and what goes on within it isn't diminished.  You the player can leave, but the PC remains or leaves at the DM's decision.  Or put another way, if your argument is true, there's nobody ever has full authority over anything.Nobody in the world ever does by your definition, because all authority is defied by someone.The DM literally cannot be fired.  Players can quit and find a new DM, but they cannot fire the DM.In the case you describe above where the players quit and find a new DM, the former DM still owns his game 100%.  The players can do nothing about it.  He can go and get a new group, keeping the former PCs around as NPCs or not as he sees fit.  The new DM can create a new game with the old PCs, but it won't be the game the players quit.  It's entirely new.Not with the same game, no.  It will be a new game with a new game starting at the same point in the module, but it's a different game with a different authority figure running it.This is group dependent, not game dependent.  Proactive players do as much and sometimes more than the DM to move the story forward, but they still need the DM's backdrop to also move the story forward, and as the DM is reacting to them and controlling more, I'm not 100% convinced that they do more.  Reactive  players absolutely do not do more.Nothing.  But my authority over the game remains unchanged.I'm not sure what these Red Herrings have to do with the authority.  Yes there are things that the DM doesn't control.  Those things are all outside of the game.That's easy.  The end result was arrived at as a group effort, but the game itself and all of the authority resides with the DM.  There's nothing the players can do to change that.  Their options are 1) convince the DM to change/compromise things, 2) yield to the DM's authority, or 3) quit and leave the DM's authority behind.  At no point do the players ever gain authority of their own unless the DM cedes some to them.Yes. It's always the same game.  It has the same pieces with the same rules and so on.  Game play can differ, but the game doesn't.I never implied it, either.  This is wholly a fabrication that you've come up with.  Then argued against.  That's called a Strawman.  Stop it.Nope!!!  Your logic is faulty.  When I said that the game grants the DM complete authority over the game, I am saying and imply ONLY that the DM has full authority over the game.  You are trying to twist things so that I'm saying that the game gives authority over the players, which it doesn't and is never the case.  The DM has zero authority over the players at any time.  At least not from D&D.Conflating authority over the game with authority over the players isn't doing you any favors.</blockquote>

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