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<blockquote data-quote="borg286" data-source="post: 7991221" data-attributes="member: 68679"><p>Thank you for pointing me to this AOE thread. I read it and it is quite impressive. I would have ended up analyzing specific spells learned at specific levels and modeling expected damage and everything. You went with super generic, which is cool. I really like the viewpoint of "how many monster turns does this action take away compared to me doing single target damage like the rest of the team by the end of the combat". I didn't see intuitive analysis that dealt with the heterogeneous party makeup where they leave AOE to you and they focus fire what is left standing.</p><p></p><p>In the end, however, the main question is (1)"what spell to prepare that maximizes my team's chances of winning?" And (2)"how many enemies will I need to target for this to be an efficient use of my spell slot, given my guess as to how many mook balls I might encounter (3) later today?"</p><p></p><p>To answer (1): It needs to be big enough, and preferably a damage type that isn't resisted. I don't see many contenders here that hold a candle to Fireball, Cone of Cold, and Vitrolic Sphere.</p><p></p><p>To answer (2): The answer is obvious if you see 8+ targets(yes) or only 3(no). As the post pointed out we are here to analyze the 4-7 range. Your analysis showed single target equivalent impact = 1*(single target damage) + 1/2*(N-1)<em>(other targets). If 4<=N<=7 then a fireball does 21+1/2*21</em>{4,7} = 63-94 equivalent damage. Compare this with a fighter's single target DPR @ level 5 of 27 DPR. That's about 2.3 - 3.5 times as much damage as a top level single target fighter. That should cover a lower DPR in the subsequent 2-4 rounds. It seems like at even 4 targets it is worth it.</p><p></p><p>To answer (3), namely the opportunity cost of having a fireball when there is an even better ball of mooks waiting on the next page of the campaign, that's where the Sorcerer comes in. We can ensure we always have a level 3 slot open for this highly efficient usage of spell slots even if all we have are 5 spell points, blowing a minor action and then fireballing is worth it given the sight of enough mooks.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the +2 Cha vs. Warcaster you have a good point. While I'd love to use Greater Invisibility on a rogue and thus turn them into a very sticky striker/defender, it is highly team dependent. A sneak attack will add around 0.12 KPR to the attack, or reduce the monster's HP by 12%, nothing to sneeze at. Another great target for Greater Invisibility is someone with Sentinel, but that should be your first option and unlikely to have 2 such targets. Someone with Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter would be the next candidates to turn into sticky strikers/defenders. Booming Blade on a level 5 character gets secondary damage of 13.5, greater than Great Weapon Master/Sharpshooter. However the real baseline is monster HP. Interestingly this averages out to 0.12 extra KPR from the secondary damage. Take 4.5*{1,3,5,7} / (14*{1,2,3,...20} +10) and average over all 20 levels. Thus if you felt Greater Invisibility on a Rogue turns them into a respectable and sticky defender, then Warcaster + Booming Blade should deserve the same respect. Therefore I'll keep it.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the healing vs Inflict Wounds, I tend to favor action economy. In the end, I agree that it depends on context and party composition. If there is a bard with healing word, you would likely switch. If there is a Life cleric you may trade out Inspiring Leader to let them shine. If the DM is cruel you would plan on Boosting defense and Healing Word as a safety Net. If players rush in with low HP you might swap out Command for Inflict Wounds and twin that instead. But in general I've went with dropping all in-combat healing except for Healing Word and Heal. This also aligns with the character concept of being a Yuan-ti and viewing others as tools/resources that have limits. Having those resources depleted means your team is less effective, and this weird "morale" thing gets lost when a party member dies. Thus you patch them up when they fall, and recite comforting words so they are more willing to risk themselves in combat to win as they have temp HP to soak up the damage. This way of looking at the team also aligns with that thread, as team members were simply units that dealt single target damage to monsters that your fireball didn't kill.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="borg286, post: 7991221, member: 68679"] Thank you for pointing me to this AOE thread. I read it and it is quite impressive. I would have ended up analyzing specific spells learned at specific levels and modeling expected damage and everything. You went with super generic, which is cool. I really like the viewpoint of "how many monster turns does this action take away compared to me doing single target damage like the rest of the team by the end of the combat". I didn't see intuitive analysis that dealt with the heterogeneous party makeup where they leave AOE to you and they focus fire what is left standing. In the end, however, the main question is (1)"what spell to prepare that maximizes my team's chances of winning?" And (2)"how many enemies will I need to target for this to be an efficient use of my spell slot, given my guess as to how many mook balls I might encounter (3) later today?" To answer (1): It needs to be big enough, and preferably a damage type that isn't resisted. I don't see many contenders here that hold a candle to Fireball, Cone of Cold, and Vitrolic Sphere. To answer (2): The answer is obvious if you see 8+ targets(yes) or only 3(no). As the post pointed out we are here to analyze the 4-7 range. Your analysis showed single target equivalent impact = 1*(single target damage) + 1/2*(N-1)[I](other targets). If 4<=N<=7 then a fireball does 21+1/2*21[/I]{4,7} = 63-94 equivalent damage. Compare this with a fighter's single target DPR @ level 5 of 27 DPR. That's about 2.3 - 3.5 times as much damage as a top level single target fighter. That should cover a lower DPR in the subsequent 2-4 rounds. It seems like at even 4 targets it is worth it. To answer (3), namely the opportunity cost of having a fireball when there is an even better ball of mooks waiting on the next page of the campaign, that's where the Sorcerer comes in. We can ensure we always have a level 3 slot open for this highly efficient usage of spell slots even if all we have are 5 spell points, blowing a minor action and then fireballing is worth it given the sight of enough mooks. Regarding the +2 Cha vs. Warcaster you have a good point. While I'd love to use Greater Invisibility on a rogue and thus turn them into a very sticky striker/defender, it is highly team dependent. A sneak attack will add around 0.12 KPR to the attack, or reduce the monster's HP by 12%, nothing to sneeze at. Another great target for Greater Invisibility is someone with Sentinel, but that should be your first option and unlikely to have 2 such targets. Someone with Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter would be the next candidates to turn into sticky strikers/defenders. Booming Blade on a level 5 character gets secondary damage of 13.5, greater than Great Weapon Master/Sharpshooter. However the real baseline is monster HP. Interestingly this averages out to 0.12 extra KPR from the secondary damage. Take 4.5*{1,3,5,7} / (14*{1,2,3,...20} +10) and average over all 20 levels. Thus if you felt Greater Invisibility on a Rogue turns them into a respectable and sticky defender, then Warcaster + Booming Blade should deserve the same respect. Therefore I'll keep it. Regarding the healing vs Inflict Wounds, I tend to favor action economy. In the end, I agree that it depends on context and party composition. If there is a bard with healing word, you would likely switch. If there is a Life cleric you may trade out Inspiring Leader to let them shine. If the DM is cruel you would plan on Boosting defense and Healing Word as a safety Net. If players rush in with low HP you might swap out Command for Inflict Wounds and twin that instead. But in general I've went with dropping all in-combat healing except for Healing Word and Heal. This also aligns with the character concept of being a Yuan-ti and viewing others as tools/resources that have limits. Having those resources depleted means your team is less effective, and this weird "morale" thing gets lost when a party member dies. Thus you patch them up when they fall, and recite comforting words so they are more willing to risk themselves in combat to win as they have temp HP to soak up the damage. This way of looking at the team also aligns with that thread, as team members were simply units that dealt single target damage to monsters that your fireball didn't kill. [/QUOTE]
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