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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Berandor" data-source="post: 1190656" data-attributes="member: 225">I get where you're coming from. I've got a few of these rants saved up myself... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />O.K., I agree with you here in terms of D&D, but not in general terms of an RPG.Really, the Buffy RPG - for example - is especially meant for players of different power levels to work together, and it works quite well, I've been told.Again, I have to disagree. I have played these Rat Bastards myself more than once. All you have to do is keep yourself open for possible hooks to your salvation, or to have you slip even deeper into darkness. You must not depend on certain actions and situations to evolve your character.You can bring great inter-player role-playing into the group with such a character, and they are memorable - even without making everything about your character or hogging the spotlight.I've done it more than once, and I've seen it done more than once.However, just because the player got attached to the character and/or is working on their own inner story does not mean you must protect the character at all costs, because that also does not make for very good role-playing imo.I personally feel my character is more <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f621.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":mad:" title="Mad    :mad:"  data-smilie="4"data-shortname=":mad:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f621.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":mad:" title="Mad    :mad:"  data-smilie="4"data-shortname=":mad:" /> ed over by storytelling when he gets protected and secure no matter what he does, or would be in character for him. If I steer a character into a situation where I fully expect him to die, and I know the character knows he'll die, having him survive because the DM doesn't want to be "rough and gritty", he'll (the character, not the DM) be destroyed for me. Honestly, I've retired characters who suffered that fate, or voluntairly forewent resurrection.I have had a player who had part of a great demon in him get to know this exactly how you describe is not possible, and I think it made for a great story. Proof of this is that I already have another player wanting me to keep secrets from his character in my upcoming campaign.Yeah, well, that's a very specific complaint with regards to special abilities in relation to D&D rules. Still, even here I want to point out the various systems for Hero Points, Karma, etc. that allow exactly the kind of ability focus you deem "awkward".Honestly, I think the problems with these kinds of stories are more a question of how they are converted to RPGs and not of their general convertability. A very importnat thing defusing a lot of tension is "not to favor a character over others", and really, that's the best criticism of well-known stories being translated into an RPG. It has nothing to do, though, with body count, power levels or rat bastardry.It's just that most novels or movies do not include a cast of equally important characters, but feature a single main protagonist or two. Even those with more than one or two main characters often have these characters be seperated, so they don't steal each other's scenes.And really, that's the biggest challenge for having a good RPG story: How to integrate all players into it, and not just one? How to keep a story consistent with the constant threat of the main character dying?The problem with stories like "Matrix" is not that Neo is more powerful than Morpheus, Trinity and, say, Niobe, but what happens if Neo dies, can he die before the end of the campaign, what happens if Neo's player leaves the group, and how do you keep things interesting for the others when only one of them is "The One (vol. 6.0)"? Also, just to have mentioned it: Many stories do not lend themselves well to interactivity, and interactivity is another key feature of good role-playing. (So that makes: 1. consistency in the face of change, 2. integration of all players, 3. interactivity for this post alone <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />)In a way, you can't lay out too much of the story beforehand, in order to not press your players into a character template and require them to act a certain way. Go with the flow and form the story out of their actions. I know this paragraph is way off-topic for this thread, but it leads to a concise statement that I desperately need to conclude with: <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Most RPG campaigns don't start as good stories, but end as one.Berandoron a rant of his ownETA: What is that, Teflon Billy? Six Posts? Wow. I think you're my new hero  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></blockquote>

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