Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly - about every edition of D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 5025454" data-attributes="member: 2205"><p><strong><u>OD&D</u></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Good:</strong> Uh... started the trend? Other than its historical position, I can't really think of anything about this game that I'd call a good point.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Bad:</strong> See the ugly. I think the problems with OD&D are pretty apparent universally, unlike some other editions.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Ugly:</strong> Terrible design. <em>No</em> design. It references stuff that it just assumes readers will know and be familiar with. It forces you to make up at least half the rules yourself, because it doesn't provide anything to cover them. Inordinate reliance on wargaming conventions and expectations. Really; it barely qualifies as a roleplaying game at all by today's standards.</li> </ul><p></p><p><strong><u>BECMI</u></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Good:</strong> Complete and simple ruleset. Not hard to score a copy still. Iconic experience for an entire generation of players. Focus started to drift away from wargamey and simulationist expectations.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Bad:</strong> Still a lot of arbitrariness and arbitrary limitations. Marketed poorly; seen (unfairly IMO, but still) as an inferior alternative for "n00bs" to AD&D.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Ugly:</strong> Dwarf and elf as classes? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Level limits.</li> </ul><p></p><p><strong><u>1e</u></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Good:</strong> The iconic edition of D&D for most. Had some classic products.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Bad:</strong> Added more rules to the OD&D framework, but they were arbitrary and poorly designed rules. Despite this, the rules also often covered bizarre and arcane questions while still leaving gaping holes in what you'd expect from a ruleset. Lots of arbitrariness. Still <em>required</em> too many houseules... not to tweak to taste, but to literally fix things that weren't addressed or didn't work.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Ugly:</strong> About the most poorly organized game ever professionally published. Way too arbitrary. Way too many rules subsets. Way too much broken-ness, especially after the publication of <em>Unearthed Arcana.</em></li> </ul><p></p><p><strong><u>2e</u></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Good:</strong> Settings. Novels. Well, the novels were a good idea, anyway, and I still maintain that. Even if <em>as novels</em> most of them are pretty terrible. The late period splatbooks finally removed some of the feel of limitations, but it did so in a terrible, clunky way. While the idea of splatbooks was good, the actual execution falls below on The Bad or maybe even The Ugly.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Bad:</strong> All the problems of 1e, except now with more boring. Politics at TSR caused the removal of too much iconic sword & sorcery material. Tone change to high fantasy. Terrible modules. Terrible splatbooks.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Ugly:</strong> Pretty much the same as The Bad. Also, lost a lot of ground for D&D in general; people migrated to other games, and did other things than fantasy.</li> </ul><p></p><p><strong><u>3e</u></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Good:</strong> Unified mechanic made the rules easy to master, and easy to fudge even if you didn't. Modular nature of rules subsets. You could easily change the game to get different tone and feel. With a few notable exceptions (like grapple, that I <em>still</em> look up) the rules faded into the background and disappeared. The OGL. Great third party publishers like Green Ronin, Privateer Press, FFG and Paizo.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Bad:</strong> 3.5. It fixed a few things, but it broke as many again, and changed a whole lot more for no good reason. Then it <strong><em>re</em></strong>released the splatbooks. Naked money grab, and I'm still bitter about it, frankly. Plus, it somehow set the tone for the third parties; <em>Arcana Unearthed</em> got updated to <em>Arcana Evolved</em>. <em>Mutants & Masterminds</em> got a second edition. Even <em>Midnight</em> was re-released as a 3.5 product. Also, continued focus on the wargame. It's more difficult to play 3e without minis and a battlemat than most RPGs I play. Too many D&Disms retained.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>The Ugly:</strong> System has a definite "sweet spot" and it fails to deliver consistent fun outside of that. In particular, high level play is <em>nothing like</em> low and mid-level play. Epic is just flat-out terrible.</li> </ul><p></p><p>No comment on 4e. I don't know enough about it to speak intelligently here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Desdichado, post: 5025454, member: 2205"] [B][U]OD&D[/U][/B] [list] [*][b]The Good:[/b] Uh... started the trend? Other than its historical position, I can't really think of anything about this game that I'd call a good point. [*][b]The Bad:[/b] See the ugly. I think the problems with OD&D are pretty apparent universally, unlike some other editions. [*][b]The Ugly:[/b] Terrible design. [I]No[/I] design. It references stuff that it just assumes readers will know and be familiar with. It forces you to make up at least half the rules yourself, because it doesn't provide anything to cover them. Inordinate reliance on wargaming conventions and expectations. Really; it barely qualifies as a roleplaying game at all by today's standards. [/list] [B][U]BECMI[/U][/B] [list] [*][b]The Good:[/b] Complete and simple ruleset. Not hard to score a copy still. Iconic experience for an entire generation of players. Focus started to drift away from wargamey and simulationist expectations. [*][b]The Bad:[/b] Still a lot of arbitrariness and arbitrary limitations. Marketed poorly; seen (unfairly IMO, but still) as an inferior alternative for "n00bs" to AD&D. [*][b]The Ugly:[/b] Dwarf and elf as classes? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Level limits. [/list] [B][U]1e[/U][/B] [list] [*][b]The Good:[/b] The iconic edition of D&D for most. Had some classic products. [*][b]The Bad:[/b] Added more rules to the OD&D framework, but they were arbitrary and poorly designed rules. Despite this, the rules also often covered bizarre and arcane questions while still leaving gaping holes in what you'd expect from a ruleset. Lots of arbitrariness. Still [I]required[/I] too many houseules... not to tweak to taste, but to literally fix things that weren't addressed or didn't work. [*][b]The Ugly:[/b] About the most poorly organized game ever professionally published. Way too arbitrary. Way too many rules subsets. Way too much broken-ness, especially after the publication of [I]Unearthed Arcana.[/I] [/list] [B][U]2e[/U][/B] [list] [*][b]The Good:[/b] Settings. Novels. Well, the novels were a good idea, anyway, and I still maintain that. Even if [I]as novels[/I] most of them are pretty terrible. The late period splatbooks finally removed some of the feel of limitations, but it did so in a terrible, clunky way. While the idea of splatbooks was good, the actual execution falls below on The Bad or maybe even The Ugly. [*][b]The Bad:[/b] All the problems of 1e, except now with more boring. Politics at TSR caused the removal of too much iconic sword & sorcery material. Tone change to high fantasy. Terrible modules. Terrible splatbooks. [*][b]The Ugly:[/b] Pretty much the same as The Bad. Also, lost a lot of ground for D&D in general; people migrated to other games, and did other things than fantasy. [/list] [B][U]3e[/U][/B] [list] [*][b]The Good:[/b] Unified mechanic made the rules easy to master, and easy to fudge even if you didn't. Modular nature of rules subsets. You could easily change the game to get different tone and feel. With a few notable exceptions (like grapple, that I [I]still[/I] look up) the rules faded into the background and disappeared. The OGL. Great third party publishers like Green Ronin, Privateer Press, FFG and Paizo. [*][b]The Bad:[/b] 3.5. It fixed a few things, but it broke as many again, and changed a whole lot more for no good reason. Then it [B][I]re[/I][/B]released the splatbooks. Naked money grab, and I'm still bitter about it, frankly. Plus, it somehow set the tone for the third parties; [I]Arcana Unearthed[/I] got updated to [I]Arcana Evolved[/I]. [I]Mutants & Masterminds[/I] got a second edition. Even [I]Midnight[/I] was re-released as a 3.5 product. Also, continued focus on the wargame. It's more difficult to play 3e without minis and a battlemat than most RPGs I play. Too many D&Disms retained. [*][b]The Ugly:[/b] System has a definite "sweet spot" and it fails to deliver consistent fun outside of that. In particular, high level play is [I]nothing like[/I] low and mid-level play. Epic is just flat-out terrible. [/list] No comment on 4e. I don't know enough about it to speak intelligently here. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly - about every edition of D&D
Top
