Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly - about every edition of D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5026869" data-attributes="member: 80487"><p>There might still be "too many D&Disms" for you -- at any rate, the name <strong>Dungeons & Dragons</strong> is still on the covers.</p><p></p><p>][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][</p><p></p><p>As to "an "alternate Dungeons & Dragons" rules set that combines the best of every edition", I would suggest that <strong>it is a personal thing</strong>! Dave Hargrave's <em>The Arduin Grimoire</em> is different from Chis Gonnerman's <em>Basic Fantasy Role Playing Game</em> is different from Matthew Finch's <em>Swords & Wizardry</em> is different from the Troll Lords' <em>Castles & Crusades</em> is different from Monte Cook's <em>Arcana Evolved</em> is different from Mike Mearls' <em>Iron Heroes</em> is different from Erik Mona's <em>Pathfinder</em> ...</p><p></p><p>So, I think the first <strong>The Good</strong> would be:</p><p></p><p><em>It is YOUR game! The scope is limited only by your imagination, and any "rule" is just an example of what made sense to someone sometime.</em></p><p></p><p>Trying to be all things to everyone is likely to rack up more <strong>The Bad</strong> the more you follow the path of tight coupling and front-loading as in WotC's games. Everyone does not like everything, so, "Here's the stew; pick out whatever it is that gives you hives" is not so great.</p><p></p><p>It would sort of hard simultaneously to emulate the 3E "throw out your old material and start all over" <em>and</em> the 4E "throw out your old material and start all over", wouldn't it? The essence of each is to make the old "obsolete".</p><p></p><p>The only way I think you can really combine the significantly different games is the way it was done originally: with a simple base set and supplements of optional components <em>without a lot of interdependencies</em>. Think modular, not monolithic!</p><p></p><p>The temptation from a commercial standpoint is to make each supplement a "must buy" for as many players as possible. Unless you're WotC or Paizo, though, I don't think you're looking at much money in this.</p><p></p><p>If you put the players' interests first, then more narrowly targeted, and probably smaller, supplements seem meet.</p><p></p><p>When you get into mixing and matching for your base set, you'll need to sort out some fundamental concepts. For instance ... You know the saying that 3E breaks down at high levels? Well, so do 2E and 1E. The Original set had magic-user spells only up to 6th level (vs. 9th), only 5th (vs. 7th) for clerics; the combat table topped out around 16th level, the saving throws at 13th for clerics and fighters; data on experience points, hit dice and spell casting likewise petered out. Magic weapons and armor were pretty much limited to +3 -- albeit in a context in which a top-level fighter had only +12 versus a first-level character (and AC did <em>not</em> likewise change, so hits became very frequent indeed, keeping high-hit-point fights from dragging on too long).</p><p></p><p>Now, here's an interesting point: The high-level stuff added in Supplement I was meant mainly to provide <strong>NPCs</strong> able (even single-handedly) to take on PC parties, villains with powers appropriate to world-shaking threats. Top PCs in the Greyhawk campaign at the time were, I believe, just at "name level".</p><p></p><p>The Moldvay Basic - Cook / Marsh Expert combo goes up to level 14, and adds some spells, but sticks with the original ranges of spell levels. The Mentzer revision goes up to 36th, "stretching" some aspects (such as thief abilities) a lot and others (such as spells) not so much. In 4E, things are set up for a lot of "leveling up" (30 levels), with small increments of added power. One might in similar fashion stretch the 14 levels of BX into about twice as many, spreading the spells and other benefits among level-specific lists -- so, e.g., a 10th-level cleric casts 10th-level spells.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5026869, member: 80487"] There might still be "too many D&Disms" for you -- at any rate, the name [b]Dungeons & Dragons[/b] is still on the covers. ][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][ As to "an "alternate Dungeons & Dragons" rules set that combines the best of every edition", I would suggest that [b]it is a personal thing[/b]! Dave Hargrave's [i]The Arduin Grimoire[/i] is different from Chis Gonnerman's [i]Basic Fantasy Role Playing Game[/i] is different from Matthew Finch's [i]Swords & Wizardry[/i] is different from the Troll Lords' [i]Castles & Crusades[/i] is different from Monte Cook's [i]Arcana Evolved[/i] is different from Mike Mearls' [i]Iron Heroes[/i] is different from Erik Mona's [i]Pathfinder[/i] ... So, I think the first [B]The Good[/B] would be: [i]It is YOUR game! The scope is limited only by your imagination, and any "rule" is just an example of what made sense to someone sometime.[/i] Trying to be all things to everyone is likely to rack up more [b]The Bad[/b] the more you follow the path of tight coupling and front-loading as in WotC's games. Everyone does not like everything, so, "Here's the stew; pick out whatever it is that gives you hives" is not so great. It would sort of hard simultaneously to emulate the 3E "throw out your old material and start all over" [i]and[/i] the 4E "throw out your old material and start all over", wouldn't it? The essence of each is to make the old "obsolete". The only way I think you can really combine the significantly different games is the way it was done originally: with a simple base set and supplements of optional components [i]without a lot of interdependencies[/i]. Think modular, not monolithic! The temptation from a commercial standpoint is to make each supplement a "must buy" for as many players as possible. Unless you're WotC or Paizo, though, I don't think you're looking at much money in this. If you put the players' interests first, then more narrowly targeted, and probably smaller, supplements seem meet. When you get into mixing and matching for your base set, you'll need to sort out some fundamental concepts. For instance ... You know the saying that 3E breaks down at high levels? Well, so do 2E and 1E. The Original set had magic-user spells only up to 6th level (vs. 9th), only 5th (vs. 7th) for clerics; the combat table topped out around 16th level, the saving throws at 13th for clerics and fighters; data on experience points, hit dice and spell casting likewise petered out. Magic weapons and armor were pretty much limited to +3 -- albeit in a context in which a top-level fighter had only +12 versus a first-level character (and AC did [i]not[/i] likewise change, so hits became very frequent indeed, keeping high-hit-point fights from dragging on too long). Now, here's an interesting point: The high-level stuff added in Supplement I was meant mainly to provide [b]NPCs[/b] able (even single-handedly) to take on PC parties, villains with powers appropriate to world-shaking threats. Top PCs in the Greyhawk campaign at the time were, I believe, just at "name level". The Moldvay Basic - Cook / Marsh Expert combo goes up to level 14, and adds some spells, but sticks with the original ranges of spell levels. The Mentzer revision goes up to 36th, "stretching" some aspects (such as thief abilities) a lot and others (such as spells) not so much. In 4E, things are set up for a lot of "leveling up" (30 levels), with small increments of added power. One might in similar fashion stretch the 14 levels of BX into about twice as many, spreading the spells and other benefits among level-specific lists -- so, e.g., a 10th-level cleric casts 10th-level spells. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly - about every edition of D&D
Top