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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zene" data-source="post: 6948953" data-attributes="member: 6863496">Got it, makes sense. I definitely don't want to stretch/break any rules.... I probably should have provided more background. I was specifically going by the PHB section on improvised weapons that says: "In many cases, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's discretion, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon... An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage".I figured a sharpened iron spike is about as close to a dagger as you can get without being a dagger; and I thought that was actually pretty universally accepted since I've heard it used as an example by a couple different folks. That definitely might not be the case, though.I'm actually kind of surprised at your response; this guide in the original post, as well as the builds you posted, seem to be all about getting creative to do cool things while still being firmly within the rules. I feel like this is right in line with that. But I do understand you're just trying to give helpful advice, and I do take it in that spirit. Well no, but similarly there's no real narrative explanation for why a Tavern Brawler can hit someone with a broken table leg and then bonus grapple, but can't hit someone with a club the same size, shape, weight, balance, etc. as the table leg and make a bonus grapple. Seems like it's more of a problem with the feat itself, than specifically the dagger/spike question. I suppose the one in-game explanation could be the element of surprise with an improvised weapon... but in that case, stabbing someone with a broken bottle should be just as effective in opening up a grapple attempt as hitting them with a chair. (Another possible explanation is just that the Tavern Brawler feat was written to encourage flavor, and have folks get creative with weapons, as opposed to just picking up the feat then using standard boring weapons.) Yeah I agree I don't want to ask for something outside of the rules, or cause any unnecessary DM consternation in AL. And your point is well taken. Personally I don't see where any of the above is outside the rules, but still, I'll definitely want to be cautious, and not ask the DM too much for judgement calls when I don't need to. Especially since I fully expect I'll need to be educating/convincing many AL DMs on the details of grappling already. And my main goal will be to grapple, not dpr, so no big deal if I can't swing something that's both finesse and improvised.</blockquote>

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