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Message: <blockquote data-quote="zarionofarabel" data-source="post: 9734904" data-attributes="member: 7026405">Considering the discussion in this thread, and the generally accepted rationalization of what it is to be railroaded, I can very well see someone being railroaded in a supposed "sandbox" game. If the GM is manipulating the narrative to force/trick players into ending up at a predetermined scene/encounter no matter what the players do, then yeah, definitely.This goes back to what I was talking about earlier in the thread too. Wherein I have been accused of being the "ultimate railroader" as I have zero plan for what will happen during a session and just make it all up as I go along. I was told that my entire game is nothing but illusionism as I am constantly manipulating the narrative to get the outcome I want. The thing is, I have no desire to see the narrative go in any particular direction, I have no goal in mind, nor predetermined place for it to end up. I try to add scenes and story elements in a fashion where current events would logically follow from previous events. I've found that I'm just as creative making up stuff on the fly as I am when I make it up beforehand, if not moreso because I am engaging in a collaborative endeavor, rather than creating in a vacuum. Once, after I explained my process to a naysayer, they told me that was even worse because I am apparently doing it subconsciously so I don't even realize that that's what I am doing. So...yeah.I think the reason "sandbox" appears to be railroad proof is because that is rarely the problem with it. The problem is the whole "wasteland" phenomenon, wherein a failed state is far more often a game that feels empty or nothing more than meandering randomness.From what I have gathered from this thread is that the failure state of either type of game is that they are stretched to the extreme. A successful linear game happens when the players allow the GM to guide them through a predetermined sequence of events, and fails when the players don't want that to happen but the GM forces it to happen. A successful sandbox happens when the GM provides meaningful things for the players to experience, and fails when the GM doesn't do that. At least, that's what my takeaway is thus far.PS - Thanks to all for providing me with some interesting discussion and food for thought. Also, thanks to all for keeping it pretty civil thus far. I dislike when these kinds of topics turn in to nothing but finger pointing and name calling, this one hasn't. So yeah...thanks everyone!</blockquote>

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