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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9738136" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Or maybe character death isn't the most interesting choice as far as consequences go?Dunno. Might be worth a thought.Yes, I'm aware of the stylistic difference. I don't enjoy that kind of play. I find it, frankly, somewhere between "tedious" and "actively unpleasant".It's not a disparity between expectation and practice.It's a disparity between described offering and practice.The thing you describe is fundamentally unheroic, isn't really much of an adventure and is instead a heist, and isn't about characters but rather about environments.D&D has not billed itself as an unheroic heist-of-the-month environmental-challenge logistics-focused game since at least 3e, and arguably well before that; the shift got its first start all the way back in 1e, and was already well underway by early 2e. D&D has, by now, long billed itself as a heroic adventure-of-the-month conflict-challenge* group-focused game, which has fundamentally different dynamics from the previous description. Instead of amoral heisters, D&D is looking at moralized (but not necessarily moral themselves) adventurers; whether righting wrongs or wronging rights, the focus is on moral context, not on amount of wealth one can extract from a murder-hole. Instead of looking at things in terms of environmental obstacles and the logistics necessary to navigate them, it is focused on aligned or conflicting priorities and the group jointly responding to or advancing some priorities over others.I'm interested in playing the game D&D has told me--for essentially all of my life--that it is about. I appreciate that you are looking at this from the perspective of someone wanting to play the game you originally played, the game you were originally sold and told about, the thing advertised to you as what D&D was about. I think that style merits inclusion. I just don't think it's been what D&D has been about for, at this point, something like 30-35 years.*Note that "conflict" does not solely mean "combat". Conflict can occur on various levels. Further, it's not that environment and logistics don't at all matter, they just aren't the primary focus.</blockquote>

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