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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9756270" data-attributes="member: 6684958">Except the idea that something might happen in the fiction does not equal character death.&nbsp; I agree.&nbsp; But character death adds so many more levels.&nbsp; When you have players who care about the game fiction, it makes for a great game.&nbsp; Death only adds to that.&nbsp; Knowing that your PC might fail and not just die, but also fail to do the story plot.&nbsp; This is the more Storytelling and Cinematic way to play.&nbsp; Comic Book characters might be the best example: They &quot;grow&quot; and &quot;change&quot; and occasionally &quot;reset&quot;, but they can never die.&nbsp; And even when they do &quot;die&quot; for a bit...they amazingly always come back.&nbsp; And it is a comforting story when the main character can never die or loose or even have anything negative happen to them.But for games like D&amp;D, there is something lost when the game with immortal PCs.&nbsp; I often ask such players, why even use the AC, HP, and combat rules if there will be no character death.&nbsp; If your hit points are infinity, why even keep track of them?&nbsp; If the PC can never die, why even use the HP rules?&nbsp; Or any of the combat rules?&nbsp; This is very true and common.Odd you miss the positive ones:&nbsp; &nbsp; (a) all players intently pay attention during the game play at all times (b) the campaign offers a myriad of wonderful things and the player does not want to loose all of that and (c) the players are deep and immersive.Not at all.&nbsp; The jerk players are the ones that walk away as soon as their character dies.&nbsp; And it is nearly always 100% the players fault.&nbsp; More average players, once they shake off the &quot;way everyone else does it&quot; can quickly learn to have a healthy respect for stakes, danger, suspense and character death.I see it often.&nbsp; Though my game is harsh, ruthless, &quot;life is war&quot; hard fun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9756270, member: 6684958"] Except the idea that something might happen in the fiction does not equal character death. I agree. But character death adds so many more levels. When you have players who care about the game fiction, it makes for a great game. Death only adds to that. Knowing that your PC might fail and not just die, but also fail to do the story plot. This is the more Storytelling and Cinematic way to play. Comic Book characters might be the best example: They "grow" and "change" and occasionally "reset", but they can never die. And even when they do "die" for a bit...they amazingly always come back. And it is a comforting story when the main character can never die or loose or even have anything negative happen to them. But for games like D&D, there is something lost when the game with immortal PCs. I often ask such players, why even use the AC, HP, and combat rules if there will be no character death. If your hit points are infinity, why even keep track of them? If the PC can never die, why even use the HP rules? Or any of the combat rules? This is very true and common. Odd you miss the positive ones: (a) all players intently pay attention during the game play at all times (b) the campaign offers a myriad of wonderful things and the player does not want to loose all of that and (c) the players are deep and immersive. Not at all. The jerk players are the ones that walk away as soon as their character dies. And it is nearly always 100% the players fault. More average players, once they shake off the "way everyone else does it" can quickly learn to have a healthy respect for stakes, danger, suspense and character death. I see it often. Though my game is harsh, ruthless, "life is war" hard fun. [/QUOTE]

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