Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gorgon Zee" data-source="post: 9757735" data-attributes="member: 75787">It's kind of amusing that this argument that games need character death to be fun is in the D&D group, famously a system where death is simply a gold piece tax and maybe a negative to actions for a scene or two.Bringing this thread back on track, I might claim that a GM killing a character is the ultimate act of railroading as it takes away all the character's agency with zero wiggle room. Additionally, fantasy is a genre where escaping certain death is very common, so the chances of an unexpected intervention should be high, to properly simulate the genre. A GM who lets a character die does so because they decided not to intervene. If they don't consult the player, it's really their choice on how they see the scene unfold being pushed onto the player.I mean, we can look straight to LOTR for several examples where the GM clearly intervenes to save characters:"You failed your saves against grappling and the tree looks like its crushing you ... oh but wait ... you hear a 'Hey Doll, Merry doll' sound and a ... umm ... a brightly robed guy arrives and ... ummm ... sings the tree into stopping"."Really guys, you went into a ghostly tomb and thought it would be level appropriate? <Sigh> OK, Tom Bombadil comes back and frees you, gives you the treasure and heads back home. Let's move on""You fail your third save against the knife's death magic and ... ummm ... fortunately for you you do so just as you arrive on the borders of Rivendell which as has a ... magical river that can repel evil effects, yeah, that's right. So it just sort of washes all the bad guys away and the elves rescue you and heal you just before you die. Oh I didn't mention this until now, but Elrond is well known as a fantastic healer so that's why you are not dead."The cave-troll criticals you for <rolls> oh wow, that's a lot ... ummm ... will you survive that damage? Would you like to roll up a new character? Yes, I guess you do have a really important story this would totally kill. Hmmm. OK, how about this. Instead of as treasure bundle for everyone this adventure, let's retcon a scene where you are given some magical armor that makes all critical hits do minimal damage? What's that Dave -- why does it fit a hobbit? Uhhh ... I guess it was made for an elf kid who was in battles a lot because ... oh screw it, it just does""Really, you can't make an easy athletics check to escape the whip attack? Oh, the age penalty, yeah. Well, it's the end of the session, let's just say you fall in and tumble way down, but eventually beat the demon, and maybe the gods just make you better. You can jump back in when you get back from your honeymoon, so it's not a bad time for a break. I'll work out the details by then""Your character is defending the hobbits when even more orcs come up. One of them crits you and ... umm ... that looks bad. Well, you are close to the river so maybe you ... oh, you're OK with your character dying -- you'd like to play the weird creature following the party? OK, yeah, I can expand his role a bit. If you're sure .... Ok then, narrate your death scene."Obviously tongue in cheek, but my point is that the genre is replete with examples where the characters are effectively immortal, and still we read and enjoy their stories with great joy. So when players come to our games -- filled with orcs, elves, trolls, undead, magic swords and animated trees -- is it a surprise that for many of them they are looking for the same sort of experience?</blockquote>

Verification