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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9758845" data-attributes="member: 6684958">In the bigger picture, yes.&nbsp; But not in just the combat.&nbsp; In life or death combat...and if your using deadly weapons it is life and death..the only immediate stakes are life and death.&nbsp; If you somehow &quot;loose a fight&quot; and don't have character death, it does not really effect the &quot;big game goal&quot; or the &quot;quest&quot; or the &quot;metaplot&quot;.&nbsp; I was not proving anything?And Character Death is the Ultimate Defeat.Did not I already answer it?So you have a PC that must get a poison antidote before the queen dies at midnight.&nbsp; The PC heads off to the Dark Woods.&nbsp; The PC foolishly gets into a fight with some orcs, and dies.&nbsp; Quest failure. Game over. So in another game with the same plot.....the PC is captured by the orcs.&nbsp; So then the DM Railroads the PC by not letting them escape.&nbsp; Quest failure. But the DM does not have the orcs kill the PC and let them escape or just let them go.&nbsp; The PC and the player maybe feel bad for seconds as they failed a quest.......and then just move on to the next quest.Of course goals +life is far, far, far more stakes and tension then just &quot;a goal&quot;.&nbsp; &nbsp;No.As I said above, the average game session only lasts a couple of hours.&nbsp; In that time, everyone wants to have fun.&nbsp; Unfortunately not all players quite grasp the concept.&nbsp; Most adventures are fairly straight forward and the players should move along the adventure.&nbsp; But a lot of players get confused or worse.&nbsp; They should know that the Catacombs are where the fun adventure is, and yet they will waste endless time wandering around in the woods foolishly.And worse, if the DM just sits back and lets the Players Lead around the Random Sandbox and do basically nothing for hours......the players will blame the DM.&nbsp; So, yes, most of the time, it is best for the DM to railroad the players to the adventure location so everyone can have fun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9758845, member: 6684958"] In the bigger picture, yes. But not in just the combat. In life or death combat...and if your using deadly weapons it is life and death..the only immediate stakes are life and death. If you somehow "loose a fight" and don't have character death, it does not really effect the "big game goal" or the "quest" or the "metaplot". I was not proving anything? And Character Death is the Ultimate Defeat. Did not I already answer it? So you have a PC that must get a poison antidote before the queen dies at midnight. The PC heads off to the Dark Woods. The PC foolishly gets into a fight with some orcs, and dies. Quest failure. Game over. So in another game with the same plot.....the PC is captured by the orcs. So then the DM [B]Railroads [/B]the PC by not letting them escape. Quest failure. But the DM does not have the orcs kill the PC and let them escape or just let them go. The PC and the player maybe feel bad for seconds as they failed a quest.......and then just move on to the next quest. Of course goals +life is far, far, far more stakes and tension then just "a goal". No. As I said above, the average game session only lasts a couple of hours. In that time, everyone wants to have fun. Unfortunately not all players quite grasp the concept. Most adventures are fairly straight forward and the players should move along the adventure. But a lot of players get confused or worse. They should know that the Catacombs are where the fun adventure is, and yet they will waste endless time wandering around in the woods foolishly. And worse, if the DM just sits back and lets the Players Lead around the Random Sandbox and do basically nothing for hours......the players will blame the DM. So, yes, most of the time, it is best for the DM to railroad the players to the adventure location so everyone can have fun. [/QUOTE]

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