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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9759014" data-attributes="member: 4937">For a certain definition of "medium", yes.  Without some objective measurement scale I can't put an objective finger on what that comfortable zone is, but that's not surprising because the amount of railroading that people tolerate differs from person to person.  But I'm arguing that it is not only necessary but unavoidable.  You can't actually make a naturalistic world that is fully detailed, governed only by predetermined rules, and where all the fiction arises solely from prior fiction because you aren't a god despite the fact that you are playing at a world.  How you deal with that limitation to your ability to be fair to the players and let them determine their own path varies, and there isn't one true way.  There is just different trade offs.That's the thing you are wrong about.  Well one thing.  I haven't broadened the definition of railroading at all.  I've been able to agree with everyone's definition of railroading.  I'm just applying that definition fairly to all actions without saying, "Well that's not railroading because I do that."No, your argument is just what I said it would be way back at the start of this:a) I'm a good DM.b) Good DMs don't railroad.c) Therefore what I do isn't railroading.d) But, I can see that sometimes it goes too far and that's bad.e) That going too far is what "railroading" is.The term has meaning as I define it.  In fact the way I define has vastly more meaning than the way you define.  You can deny my explanation has meaning, but not only am I using your definitions I'm giving concrete examples of what railroading actually is in practice.  I'm the only one here with an objective standard.  And all you've got is, "Railroading is not what I do, because railroading is what bad DM's do and I'm a good DM!" The thing that brought me to this position was listening to DMs like you argue about what was or wasn't railroading.  Different DMs would always disagree over what actions constituted railroading.  But actions involved were a spectrum.  And different GMs I had different comfort levels and different procedures around how they guaranteed the players got enough agency.  And they always just used the term "railroading" as a slur what someone else was doing, just as you are doing now.  They never heard each others arguments because it was just one big slur fight - "You railroad! I don't!  I'm a good GM!"  It was boring and pointless.The term has meaning.  And you can still railroad badly, or as I prefer because it's less of a normative judgment "artlessly".  And I discuss examples of artless GMing where I strongly advice GMs to avoid behaving in that way.  The thing is that unless you confront your own limitations as GM and your own practices as a GM you can't improve them.  If you can't be conscious of whether you are potentially railroading players with handwaves or tiny worlds or whatever practice is common place at your table, you can't really grow as a GM.  You're stuck in one way truisms.  You aren't looking at the craft as an art.  You can just throw slurs at me and yell, "Railroader!"</blockquote>

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