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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 9770011" data-attributes="member: 6716779">It is kinda funny seeing the narrative pushed along the lines that wizards are OP.  Im seeing the great wizard extinction event. The last one rolled up was 2019. That was mostly due to 3rd party material being used.   I've mentioned the comparative nerfing of fireball as a classic example. Relative to older editions you're throwing a 2d6 or 3d6 fireball in effect due to hit point inflation. Its competing with other classes who can cast it and things like spirit guardians  which tend to out perform it. Even my newbie players are figuring it out  (light cleric casting spirit guardians instead). I would also argue the 5E meta of hit point inflation and weak saves on monsters has an influence. The holy trinity of hypnotic pattern, slow and fear are also great control spells.  Its expanded spel list for the most part doesn't matter due to spell slots. The wizard only technically gets more spells via arcane recovery. That's ability is to weak espically lower level. The big problem for them is power creep on the other classes espicially at levels that matter. Those levels mostly being 1-7. The wizards big problem being a lot of its "keystone" abilities essentially  being level 10. Much like the artificer you're waiting to long to get good. The 5.0 enchanter is a great example. Awesome level 10 ability, mediocre  2 and 6. New wizards 3 subclasses barely got changed from 5.0 to 5.5. Illusionits is the only one comparable to the new playtest ones.  Some more specific examples. Sorcerer says hi. Every sorcerer gets metamagic. Twin spell is very cheap to cast. At level 3, 5, 7 etc you get a new spell level to play with.  Theres generally a single target upcastable ball breaking spell available. Command, hold person, tashas mind whip,  Banishment, hold monster. A single sorcerer point can twin them. This single ability dumps all over arcane recovery. This is only 1 trick sorcerers get. Playtest enchantress and transmuted gets a similar twin ability at level 6 based off Enchanter 10 ability from 5.0. That ability  is still weaker than twin spell just saying.  Warlocks. This class is stupidly front loaded.  A level 2 warlock can have 3 invocations. They can pick all 3 magic initiate origin feats. This gives them 3 free castings spells at level 2, adds those spells to their spell list and they still get 2 more spells per short rest vs the wizards 3 level 1 spells and a single use arcane recovery. Level 1 spells worth upcasting you have reat selections such as command, tashas hideous laughter, Chromatic Orb, bless,  and druid spells. And potentially 6 cantrips. Guidance...... Clerics. While your low level wizard is sucking being a low level wizard you get better weapons and armor. Channel divinity and more class abilities. Light Clerics comparatively absurd resource wise with radiance of the dawn essentially being a level 2 spell arguably  scaling to 3rd level later in your career. Not many level 2 and 3 wizard (5.0 or 5.5) abilities are that good comparatively. They're also going up against maximized call shatters or free spiritual weapon or +2 AC concentration free in 5.5.  Druids. Druids would never be front loaded either. With true strike, shillagh being easily available and spels like conjure Animals being available. New wildshape options are more resources generally. Free guiding bolts, moon Druids beating you up, wrath of the sea+emanating etc. Bards. Well you're a bard. Level 5 your bard dice refresh on short rest. Smaller spell list but they're ones wizards should be focusing on. Bard subclasses area lot better than Wizard ones.  The recurring theme here is almost every other spell caster in effect has more resources than you level 1-4. Level 5 they all get level 3 spells. Wizard has best spell list but only technically more spells via arcane recovery. That's more of a theoretical technically correct situation. Each class tends to have A and S tier spells at levels that matter.  If your spell list is lacking at certain levels upcast them. In effect the wizards versatility is vastly over rated at least until the later levels (10+). That's to late imho I barely care about those levels theyre mostly theoretical. Our games level 12 atm and that's already higher than most groups achieve and its taken a year to get there. I'll mention Baldurs Gate 3. On various tier lists the wizard tends to get rated as B tier. On par with the Druid. Paladins, Bards, Fighters and Sorcerers tend to be a head of them. Just thought I would mention it. Better than the rogue at least. In our recent game Fighter essentially Karlach soloed Gortash. Just saying.   WotC even realizes how bad wizards have become with the new playtest ones plus illusionists vs older designs of the diviner, invoker and abjurer. Casuals over the last decade lean heavily towards the charisma classes generally Sorcerer and Warlock.  Powergamers those two classes plus Fighter, Paladins and Clerics.  On the plus side the wizards not an Artificer, Ranger or Rogue. Even the Ranger looks more appealing tbh and you can MC out after 5th level. Its not bad as such I regard it as a B tier class now. Invoker is a B tier subclass its the newb tube (Call of Duty 4 reference)  equivalent. Learn to shoot. Diviners to limited and rng based, illusionist is he best one followed by Abjurer. Its just been power crept out by other classes and 5E meta penalized its traditional artillery role (outclassed by warlocks and Sorcerers there as well).</blockquote>

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