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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9770585" data-attributes="member: 87792">I'm playing one now. And you might be seeing a "wizard extinction event" at your table - but as of 2023 (the most recent year I have data for) the wizard was the fourth most popular class and the most popular spellcaster. It used to be joked for good reason that "It's called Wizards of the Coast not Sorcerers of the Coast".[ATTACH=full]418960[/ATTACH]Clearly rather than another new full caster we need more non-casters as the only three classes more popular than the wizard in 2023 were non-casters.In combat yes - although True Strike massively narrowed the gap between all the arcane casters and everyone else at Tier 1. We've moved from the wizard being at the front of the trailing pack to the back of a single coherent pack in tier 1. Which gap matters more to you? How much you can contribute or whether there are other people to look down on?So you're saying they are average then. Not the worst, not the best. It's just that throughout 3.0, 3.5, the latter half of 4e, and most of 5e the "It's wizards of the coast not sorcerers of the coast" joke had serious teeth and the veterans you play with are playing other things now that wizards are not The Best Class until high levels.</blockquote>