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Message: <blockquote data-quote="cbwjm" data-source="post: 9776293" data-attributes="member: 6788732">I compare fireball against ogres to show how powerful it is, basically, how good is a 5th level wizard's fireball against a band of ogres. I wrote the following ages ago but never posted it.Fireball by the editionsBasic. A fireball back in BECMI could deal up to 20 dice of damage, that is 20-120 (70 average) damage which is pretty much going to wipe out anything it hits that fails it’s saving throw. Of course the wizard needs to be level 20 and their opponents are likely also rather high level and much more likely to make their save against the fireball.1e. This edition is pretty far outside of my experience, I believe they had a damage cap of 20, though for all I know spell damage had no cap at all and continued to increase. 2e. The new damage cap became 10 dice, capping out in damage when the wizard reaches 10th level. Still likely to kill anything it is thrown against as 10-60 (35 average) damage is still a lot of damage when targets typically have a handful of d8s for hit points, no constitution bonuses added for monsters. For instance, an ogre in 2e has 4d8+1 hit points, that’s an average of 19 hit points, a 6th level caster would be likely to wipe out an ogre and his buddies with a single fireball dealing 6-36 (21 average) damage.3e. This edition kept the 10 dice damage cap but now, since monsters all had the 6 ability scores as well, they could add in their constitution bonuses to their hit points. Now an ogre has 4d8+11 hit points (a 15 constitution and the toughness feat for a total of +11 hit points) so that their average hit points are increased to 29. Meaning that the wizard now needs to be level 9 before they can be confident that the ogre is destroyed by his 9d6 (9-54, 31.5 average) fireball. 9th level means that the DC for his fireball spell is likely going to be 17 (with an 18 intelligence) so the ogre with a +0 reflex saving throw is likely going to fail and take the full brunt of the fireball.This edition also added in metamagic feats so, with the appropriate feats, use of higher level spell slots to increase the DC (heighten spell), deal an extra 50% damage (empower spell), deal full damage (maximise spell) or cast two fireballs (quicken spell), and there were more than these to choose. You could also combine these together if you had high enough level spell slots and wanted to cast fireballs all day every day.4e. This edition turned the spell into a low damage effect, still useful to soften up some targets as well as wipe out minions. Initially dealing 3d6 + the wizard’s intelligence bonus, this was later increased to 4d6 + intelligence bonus via errata. Something to be noted, however, is that you were expected to swap out your lower level spells for higher level ones so you’d likely come across a more powerful fireball-like spell at a later level, though it may or may not have dealt (just) fire damage. The enemies were generally much tougher than previous editions and so the fireball spell was far less potent as anything other than a minion sweeper. How does this edition’s fireball deal with an ogre? Unless they are a minion, it doesn’t. You’d be better off using an ability that locks down an ogre than spending your daily use of fireball, but again, if there are a few minions, then fireball with it’s large area of effect, is still a great choice.5e. Fireball is back to being 3e levels of potency with the spell dealing a base amount of damage of 8d6, though now since it scales with spell slot rather than caster level so you generally need to expend a higher level spell slot to increase its damage (some class abilities will add damage to the spell making it a bit stronger without needing a higher level slot). How well does it handle an ogre? The average 5e ogre has 59 hit points which means that to have a chance to kill one, you need to be a 9th level caster and use a 5th-level spell slot to deal 10-60 (35 average) fire damage. More than likely, you will need to throw a second fireball next turn, or allow your allies to have some fun in wiping out the ogre. At least the spell isn’t wiped from your mind after casting.</blockquote>

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