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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Grind Problem (My 2 Cents)
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<blockquote data-quote="Zelc" data-source="post: 4584009" data-attributes="member: 40496"><p>I think this problem gets worse in the higher levels.</p><p></p><p>Consider this. In the DMG, it's advised that monster AC and defenses rise on a 1:1 relation with their level. I haven't examined the MM deeply, but I'll assume this is the case. That means at level 30, they've gained +29 AC and defenses compared to when they were level 1.</p><p></p><p>PCs have higher attack bonuses from +1/2 lvl, enhancement bonuses, and ability boosts. 1/2 level accounts for +15, enhancement bonuses for +6, and ability boosts for +5. That's a total of +26, 3 less than what the monsters gained. That's 15% lower chance to hit, or if you hit on an 11 at level 1, that's a whopping 30% decrease in your total number of hits. This is hypothetically balanced by the better bonuses you get from powers. However, you must often hit with those powers to gain the bonuses, which further feeds into the boom or bust problem in combat. Miss those dailies (and your chance to hit with those dailies is down) and you're stuck in grindspace.</p><p></p><p>(This is even more amusing in PvP combat. Some characters can hit 51 AC without too much effort. Good luck getting more than a +36 attack. Hurray for 30% chance to hit!)</p><p></p><p>There's a similar problem with defenses, by the way. I'm hesitant to mess with this, but a +1 attack and defense bonus at levels 11 and 21 might go a ways to fixing this problem. I'm also thinking of adding a substantial damage bonus on attacks against bloodied creatures, which will make combat more dangerous for both monsters and PCs and hopefully speed up combat.</p><p></p><p>All in all, I agree that Wizards made some serious mistakes with tweaking 4E. It just does not scale well at all. At level 30, one of your defenses will be so low attacks against it will auto-hit. To add insult to injury, several character builds have TWO such weak defenses. Anyway, that's a separate problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zelc, post: 4584009, member: 40496"] I think this problem gets worse in the higher levels. Consider this. In the DMG, it's advised that monster AC and defenses rise on a 1:1 relation with their level. I haven't examined the MM deeply, but I'll assume this is the case. That means at level 30, they've gained +29 AC and defenses compared to when they were level 1. PCs have higher attack bonuses from +1/2 lvl, enhancement bonuses, and ability boosts. 1/2 level accounts for +15, enhancement bonuses for +6, and ability boosts for +5. That's a total of +26, 3 less than what the monsters gained. That's 15% lower chance to hit, or if you hit on an 11 at level 1, that's a whopping 30% decrease in your total number of hits. This is hypothetically balanced by the better bonuses you get from powers. However, you must often hit with those powers to gain the bonuses, which further feeds into the boom or bust problem in combat. Miss those dailies (and your chance to hit with those dailies is down) and you're stuck in grindspace. (This is even more amusing in PvP combat. Some characters can hit 51 AC without too much effort. Good luck getting more than a +36 attack. Hurray for 30% chance to hit!) There's a similar problem with defenses, by the way. I'm hesitant to mess with this, but a +1 attack and defense bonus at levels 11 and 21 might go a ways to fixing this problem. I'm also thinking of adding a substantial damage bonus on attacks against bloodied creatures, which will make combat more dangerous for both monsters and PCs and hopefully speed up combat. All in all, I agree that Wizards made some serious mistakes with tweaking 4E. It just does not scale well at all. At level 30, one of your defenses will be so low attacks against it will auto-hit. To add insult to injury, several character builds have TWO such weak defenses. Anyway, that's a separate problem. [/QUOTE]
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