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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ShinHakkaider" data-source="post: 5766829" data-attributes="member: 9213">Agreed. I mean seriously? Pathfinder is my game of choice. And I've been DM'ing for over 20 years at this point so I'm gonna ignore Wyatt's advice anyway. I think it's fairly crappy advice because one of the reasons I play RPG's is beause youre not limited to THIS or THAT decisions. THIS is fun. THAT is not. Wyatt pretty plainly says this in the text.When it should be: THIS is fun for some people. Here's why. THAT is fun for some people. Here's why.  Then a few posters brought up the argument of reading that line in context and you know what I thought that was a COMPLETELY fair point so I got my copy of the DM's guide and found the entries and typed out the relevant paragraph's. The description/definition of ENCOUNTER as defined for 4E and the description/definition of FUN as defined for 4E. Now the goal posts have shifted yet again with posters saying A) it needs to be read with context with the entire book or even with the Player's Handbook. B) we're nitpicking be because those of us who have a problem with the quotes in question hate 4E because it burned down out ranch, stole our cattle, took our land and shot our dog. When obviously 4E only stole cattle we weren't really that all that interested in anyway because we decided to go vegan (no really I love steak, but I'll be vegan for the sake of the argument...). Either way, there are people who are proponents of 4E who also have issues with the quotes so...THWARTED! C) I'm fully willing to admit that I might be alone in this but I dont read reference books cover to cover. Nor do I commit everything that I read to memory. I do remember things that stand out to me when I'm reading. That quote, despite the fact that the DM's Guide is probably my favorite of the 4E books (and remember I dont care for 4E all that much) stood out and annoyed me as I think it was really bad advice. DMing is combination of art and science.  And there are times where if, as a game designer, you're going to seemingly dismiss a part of the game as overall NOT FUN you've got to understand that you might be dead wrong and just catering to your own preferences. Which is fine if you're working on an indie game. But if you're writing for the flagship RPG, the granddaddy of all RPG's, the 800lb gorilla you need to be a little more inclusive. Especially if during the promotion for your game you're talking about inclusiveness and getting everyone under the big tent. That's not big tent talk guys. That's OUR WAY is FUN. Your way? Not so much...Which brings me to my final point I think that no one on my side of this argument has said that you shouldn't at some point speed pass certain encounters that may have no purpose. Even I have admitted to that. We just dont want people to think that no encounter that isnt distinctly combat or a skill challenge or involved with dice rolling is worthless and NOT fun. Now several arguments have been made trying to say that's not what Wyatt was saying. Again, with the goal post moving. The quote is there. Okay it needs to be looked at in context of more than just the quote. Okay take the entire paragraph. Quote is still there. Okay now we need to look at the entire book and maybe the PH too. Wait what about Gygax? he gave bad advice too! Wait? What the Deuce?!? who's talking about Gygax here? If we disagree? well it wasn't written for you so you're nitpicky for reading into it. WHAT?!? Reading into what? I'm assuming he's saying EXACTLY what he wanted to say BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE WROTE IN THE GORRAMED BOOK. Listen, we get it you dont want to give any ground, you dont want to admit that some us MAYBE, just MAAAAAAYBE have a point about how Wyatt wrote what he did. I think enough of us have said yes we see things from your side and we're not debating that much. But almost none of you are willing to see this thing from our point of view instead you find it easier to call us 4E haters, nitpickers (is that even a word) and other dismissive things. So in closing good luck with all that. It still doesnt change the fact that Wyatt wrote what he wrote. It's there in the book. You cant say we're reading into something that's not there when IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE BOOK. If anything we're responding to something that's plainly stated (which should be the case for a reference book by the way...) and you guys are reading into his statements with stuff that's not there. I'm willing to live and let live though. So no hard feelings. Play how and what you want.</blockquote>

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