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<blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 5766888" data-attributes="member: 25619">I agree with both thoughts I quoted from you.What I think goes unsaid is the deep connection between them.I think your theory that 4e was written to entice 14 year old WOW players to give D&amp;D a try, to make it seem less old-fashioned, less of their weird uncle's game, makes good sense -- I see a lot of evidence for it.And that has a lot to do with why a large number (majority?) of D&amp;D's existing customers don't like 4e -- it's not for us.&nbsp; I'd go further and say it's purposefully against the traditions of the game in some ways, based on the marketing approach and on quotes like this that say &quot;The traditions your weird uncle tried to teach you are WRONG.&nbsp; This is not your uncles Buick, err, D&amp;D.&nbsp; You should do it this new, improved modern way.&quot;Saying &quot;Traditions that you wanted to pass on to the next generation are WRONG and must be changed&quot; tends to upset people.&nbsp; At the risk of stepping over the &quot;no religion&quot; rule, the Catholic Church is being roiled by an edition war right now, with November changes to the English-language Mass like &quot;And also with you&quot; becoming &quot;And also with your spirit&quot;, which &quot;Old School&quot; Catholics just can't remember, since old version was known by heart.&nbsp; I read a good article about this in Fortune, from a Jewish POV, about how changes in services (in the author's opinion) wreck the traditions and the links between generations, which are the (secular) point of following rituals in the first place.&nbsp; So it's not too surprising to me that the Edition Wars looked a bit like a Holy War.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="haakon1, post: 5766888, member: 25619"] I agree with both thoughts I quoted from you. What I think goes unsaid is the deep connection between them. I think your theory that 4e was written to entice 14 year old WOW players to give D&D a try, to make it seem less old-fashioned, less of their weird uncle's game, makes good sense -- I see a lot of evidence for it. And that has a lot to do with why a large number (majority?) of D&D's existing customers don't like 4e -- it's not for us. I'd go further and say it's purposefully against the traditions of the game in some ways, based on the marketing approach and on quotes like this that say "The traditions your weird uncle tried to teach you are WRONG. This is not your uncles Buick, err, D&D. You should do it this new, improved modern way." Saying "Traditions that you wanted to pass on to the next generation are WRONG and must be changed" tends to upset people. At the risk of stepping over the "no religion" rule, the Catholic Church is being roiled by an edition war right now, with November changes to the English-language Mass like "And also with you" becoming "And also with your spirit", which "Old School" Catholics just can't remember, since old version was known by heart. I read a good article about this in Fortune, from a Jewish POV, about how changes in services (in the author's opinion) wreck the traditions and the links between generations, which are the (secular) point of following rituals in the first place. So it's not too surprising to me that the Edition Wars looked a bit like a Holy War. ;) [/QUOTE]

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