Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Gygaxian Origins of Drow and Some Thought on their Depiction As Villians
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Libertad" data-source="post: 8350654" data-attributes="member: 6750502"><p>I posted it in the other drow thread, but it's canon in the Complete Book of Elves and Forgotten Realms that drow skin color was a divine punishment meant to denote their wicked natures. Hope nobody minds a double-post!</p><p></p><p>I feel that the problem with drow is that their existence in the most popular D&D settings posits in which racism based on skin color is not only a thing, it's a thing that's justified 99% of the time. In Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk the drow are the only major elven subrace that is written as uniformly dark-skinned and depending on the writer either biologically inclined to evil or hopelessly under the thumb of Lolth and destined for evil. People like Drizz't are literal one in a million exceptions to the rule. The other elven subraces such as Faerun's moon and sun elves are described with pale and tan complexions. There are dark-skinned non-drow elves such as some portrayals of wild elves and wood elves, but they aren't anywhere near as common an option for players or have as much lore written up about them as the high elven equivalents.</p><p></p><p>There's also the fact that the Forgotten Realms setting and the Complete Book of Elves imposed a Curse of Ham style affliction on the drow elves. When they rejected Corellon and rebelled against their cousins, they were given black skin to mark their wicked natures. In the 4th Edition of FR drow who redeemed themselves reverted to a more human brown complexion.</p><p></p><p>While 4e FR and CBoE are both widely loathed, the fact that such books were written in the 90s and Aughts and not the 60s and 70s shows just how slow and resistant to progressive change TSR/Wizards can be.</p><p></p><p>I don't think that getting rid of drow is the answer. Having them be another elven group who can be good or evil rather than uniformly evil is a good means of rectifying past mistakes. Also retconning that stupid Curse of Ham thing. Also more portrayals of dark-skinned elves that aren't drow.</p><p></p><p>As for the comparison of drow to black people...well, there's the Curse of Ham thing I mentioned above, but people outside D&D subcultures have noticed inferences. The wildly popular South Park video game the Stick of Truth had the kids LARPing as two different factions: the Kingdom of Koopa Keep (read the initials) lead by Eric Cartmann fighting the drow elves lead by Kyle.</p><p></p><p>Also Jim Ward, one of TSR's luminaries, had an interview with RPGPundit and Venger Satanis where he claimed that drow are black people in his view. Granted he's a reactionary crank telling other reactionary cranks what they want to hear, but it's far from an isolated incident.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Libertad, post: 8350654, member: 6750502"] I posted it in the other drow thread, but it's canon in the Complete Book of Elves and Forgotten Realms that drow skin color was a divine punishment meant to denote their wicked natures. Hope nobody minds a double-post! I feel that the problem with drow is that their existence in the most popular D&D settings posits in which racism based on skin color is not only a thing, it's a thing that's justified 99% of the time. In Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk the drow are the only major elven subrace that is written as uniformly dark-skinned and depending on the writer either biologically inclined to evil or hopelessly under the thumb of Lolth and destined for evil. People like Drizz't are literal one in a million exceptions to the rule. The other elven subraces such as Faerun's moon and sun elves are described with pale and tan complexions. There are dark-skinned non-drow elves such as some portrayals of wild elves and wood elves, but they aren't anywhere near as common an option for players or have as much lore written up about them as the high elven equivalents. There's also the fact that the Forgotten Realms setting and the Complete Book of Elves imposed a Curse of Ham style affliction on the drow elves. When they rejected Corellon and rebelled against their cousins, they were given black skin to mark their wicked natures. In the 4th Edition of FR drow who redeemed themselves reverted to a more human brown complexion. While 4e FR and CBoE are both widely loathed, the fact that such books were written in the 90s and Aughts and not the 60s and 70s shows just how slow and resistant to progressive change TSR/Wizards can be. I don't think that getting rid of drow is the answer. Having them be another elven group who can be good or evil rather than uniformly evil is a good means of rectifying past mistakes. Also retconning that stupid Curse of Ham thing. Also more portrayals of dark-skinned elves that aren't drow. As for the comparison of drow to black people...well, there's the Curse of Ham thing I mentioned above, but people outside D&D subcultures have noticed inferences. The wildly popular South Park video game the Stick of Truth had the kids LARPing as two different factions: the Kingdom of Koopa Keep (read the initials) lead by Eric Cartmann fighting the drow elves lead by Kyle. Also Jim Ward, one of TSR's luminaries, had an interview with RPGPundit and Venger Satanis where he claimed that drow are black people in his view. Granted he's a reactionary crank telling other reactionary cranks what they want to hear, but it's far from an isolated incident. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Gygaxian Origins of Drow and Some Thought on their Depiction As Villians
Top