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The Hall of Suck: Worst Classes in D&D History (Spoiler Alert: Nothing from 5e)
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<blockquote data-quote="Musing Mage" data-source="post: 8053248" data-attributes="member: 7025552"><p>I have to vehemently disagree with your assessment of the 1e Monk. You have a few details wrong, but there's more to it.</p><p></p><p>First - they use the Cleric matrix not the Thief's, which is 2nd only to the Fighter's. They use the Thief SAVING THROW table, though.</p><p></p><p>Also the Paladin has the largest xp requirement of core 1e, at 2750xp for level 2, where the monk is on par with the Ranger at 2250. (So yes, it still speaks to your point that monks have a high XP requirement, but they are certainly not the worst. Wizards and Paladins have a slower time advancing.)</p><p></p><p>The stun feature is very effective and certainly not a mathematical improbability, you merely need to score a hit by a margin of five over your minimum target #, which happens fairly often - and the stun lasts d6 rounds with no save. A monk attacking an unarmoured enemy (hello enemy wizards!) is +4 to attack (if you're using weapon-type-vs-AC, which you should be) meaning a first level monk need only score an 11 or higher on a d20 (50%). Yes that number is reduced with better armoured enemies, but the average AC in 1st Ed hovers in the 5 range. So even a 1st level monk will usually score that stun on a 19 or 20 more often than not.</p><p></p><p>The instant kill effect is also effective, as it's automatic, and is a percentage equal to the AC of the target. Yes, THAT one is a lot less frequent, but for an automatic, non depleting chance of an instant kill (with no save), having an average 5% chance is reasonable. Depending on how your DM interprets the rules, you could get this ability at 1st level with bonuses to the % coming in after 7th.</p><p></p><p>Open hand damage starts at 1d3... but you can't forget that this is 1st Edition, where demographically adventuring class characters appear once for every 100 people, so if you're playing it right the average person will have d4 (or d6 at most for soldiers and labourers) hp... but unlike in 5e where it caps at 1d10, Monk open hand damage gets as high as 8d4. Even by level 3 you're at d6 and climbing fast. Monks also get a flat +1 to damage for each even level with any weapon they use. That adds up quite nicely. Even at 4th level, a +2 damage stacked with a magic weapon brings on the hurt.</p><p></p><p>Monk Movement is completely insane, and their other powers are immensely useful. The d4+ modifier healing doesn't seem like much to people used to the excessive hit point escalation of later editions, and <em>COUGH*totalhealingonovernightrest*COUGH</em>, but in a system where natural healing is 1 per 24 hours, adding a d4+ level modifier to your daily recovery is huge.</p><p></p><p>As for monks HP, d4 seems like a low amount, but remember they start with 2d4 not 1, giving an average of 5 to an average 4 for the starting thief. Thieves pull ahead on the HP front due to their rapid advancement, but monks catch up quickly. Add in a CON bonus and that game changes. A monk with 16 con starts with 6-12 HP. More than enough to stay alive in a fight. (Well, as much as the rest of the team will have at any rate)</p><p></p><p>This is just combat. They have handy non-combat skills too...</p><p></p><p>Further, the monk at 1st level has the 5e equivalent of evasion, and unlimited missile deflection.</p><p></p><p>At third level they can speak with animals at will. That one ability has saved the lives of many parties in my games. You see, Speak with animals in 1st ed is not the lame, watered down piece of trash it was nerfed into starting with 2nd ed... 1st Ed Speak With Animals affects ALL of the specified animal type in the area and immediately makes them non-hostile for the duration.</p><p></p><p>Monks get thieving skills as well, making them a viable alternative to the thief, with better combat prowess. A lawful good monk serves the role that a thief would and you can trust them a lot more. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> Handy if you want a thief AND a paladin in the same party.</p><p></p><p>As for your other classes, I can't really say I disagree. The 1st Ed Ranger remains a beast, and from 2nd Ed onward they were on a downward spiral. Paladins in 3rd are a pointless venture, though I don't mind what they've done with them in 5th ed too much... Can't speak to anything 4e as I never played that edition.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Musing Mage, post: 8053248, member: 7025552"] I have to vehemently disagree with your assessment of the 1e Monk. You have a few details wrong, but there's more to it. First - they use the Cleric matrix not the Thief's, which is 2nd only to the Fighter's. They use the Thief SAVING THROW table, though. Also the Paladin has the largest xp requirement of core 1e, at 2750xp for level 2, where the monk is on par with the Ranger at 2250. (So yes, it still speaks to your point that monks have a high XP requirement, but they are certainly not the worst. Wizards and Paladins have a slower time advancing.) The stun feature is very effective and certainly not a mathematical improbability, you merely need to score a hit by a margin of five over your minimum target #, which happens fairly often - and the stun lasts d6 rounds with no save. A monk attacking an unarmoured enemy (hello enemy wizards!) is +4 to attack (if you're using weapon-type-vs-AC, which you should be) meaning a first level monk need only score an 11 or higher on a d20 (50%). Yes that number is reduced with better armoured enemies, but the average AC in 1st Ed hovers in the 5 range. So even a 1st level monk will usually score that stun on a 19 or 20 more often than not. The instant kill effect is also effective, as it's automatic, and is a percentage equal to the AC of the target. Yes, THAT one is a lot less frequent, but for an automatic, non depleting chance of an instant kill (with no save), having an average 5% chance is reasonable. Depending on how your DM interprets the rules, you could get this ability at 1st level with bonuses to the % coming in after 7th. Open hand damage starts at 1d3... but you can't forget that this is 1st Edition, where demographically adventuring class characters appear once for every 100 people, so if you're playing it right the average person will have d4 (or d6 at most for soldiers and labourers) hp... but unlike in 5e where it caps at 1d10, Monk open hand damage gets as high as 8d4. Even by level 3 you're at d6 and climbing fast. Monks also get a flat +1 to damage for each even level with any weapon they use. That adds up quite nicely. Even at 4th level, a +2 damage stacked with a magic weapon brings on the hurt. Monk Movement is completely insane, and their other powers are immensely useful. The d4+ modifier healing doesn't seem like much to people used to the excessive hit point escalation of later editions, and [I]COUGH*totalhealingonovernightrest*COUGH[/I], but in a system where natural healing is 1 per 24 hours, adding a d4+ level modifier to your daily recovery is huge. As for monks HP, d4 seems like a low amount, but remember they start with 2d4 not 1, giving an average of 5 to an average 4 for the starting thief. Thieves pull ahead on the HP front due to their rapid advancement, but monks catch up quickly. Add in a CON bonus and that game changes. A monk with 16 con starts with 6-12 HP. More than enough to stay alive in a fight. (Well, as much as the rest of the team will have at any rate) This is just combat. They have handy non-combat skills too... Further, the monk at 1st level has the 5e equivalent of evasion, and unlimited missile deflection. At third level they can speak with animals at will. That one ability has saved the lives of many parties in my games. You see, Speak with animals in 1st ed is not the lame, watered down piece of trash it was nerfed into starting with 2nd ed... 1st Ed Speak With Animals affects ALL of the specified animal type in the area and immediately makes them non-hostile for the duration. Monks get thieving skills as well, making them a viable alternative to the thief, with better combat prowess. A lawful good monk serves the role that a thief would and you can trust them a lot more. ;) Handy if you want a thief AND a paladin in the same party. As for your other classes, I can't really say I disagree. The 1st Ed Ranger remains a beast, and from 2nd Ed onward they were on a downward spiral. Paladins in 3rd are a pointless venture, though I don't mind what they've done with them in 5th ed too much... Can't speak to anything 4e as I never played that edition. [/QUOTE]
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