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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaculata" data-source="post: 8055768" data-attributes="member: 6801286">So 2 classes have better AC than the Paladin. That still makes the paladin's AC better than all the other classes you left out.You keep saying that, but assuming a paladin has high charisma, like lets say an 18 (without factoring in magic items), that means she gets a +4 to all saves. So that means that a level 10 paladin has these saves:  Fort:+11, Ref:+7, Will:+7. This means that the paladin needs to roll an 8 or higher to make most saves (assuming a save is around 15 or less, which is common around level 10). That is an easy save to make.They may not have an 18 on their strength, but would most likely still have a 16. Which means only a +1 difference.Sure. You've shown the 3.5 Fighter was a beast. You have not shown that the Paladin is any less than a decent mid-liner. You keep comparing the paladin to specific other classes, but you're not looking at the whole picture: How the paladin works in a mixed group of other classes. And among those, it is not the worst by a long shot.Why wouldn't you already have a 16 in strength upon character creation? Most of the time when I roll a character, I have atleast two abilities that are high, everything else is average or low.At level 10 you only need to roll an 8 or higher to make most saves.You're not alone in the party. You will probably have a spellcaster in your party that can counter spell.</blockquote>