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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8055860" data-attributes="member: 87792">Going to argue this one on oh so many levels.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">This is a splatbook class from the worst 4e splatbook. Compared exclusively to PHB classes. It's the worst 4e class - but far from the worst splatbook class.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Why shouldn't it be a class. Does it cover what it does thematically nicely and in a way nothing existing did? Yes. Does it add to the game? Yes. Could it be done without a class? No. This sort of thing is what classes in splatbooks should be for.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">It was a tier 4 class in a Tier 3 world. That's all that was wrong with it - like the Four Elements Monk. It also had mobility and a damage bonus.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">It had two healing surges - and could steal surges every encounter. It could keep going and regenerate. An interesting variation that worked better in some play styles than others. Interesting variations in splatbooks are fine.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I'm pretty sure you're misremembering and that it wasn't split between weapon and implement - but between Cha and Dex.</li> </ol>Is the Vampire the worst class 4e had to offer? Arguably yes and it was a tier 4 class in a tier 3 world. Does it belong on the worst classes of all time? Oh hell no.The absolute worst classes were the AD&D Paladin, the 1e Barbarian, the 2e Thief, and the Dark Sun Templar - because all tese classes caused inter-party friction through their direct mechanics. The Paladin couldn't associate with evil characters, the Barbarian couldn't knowingly associate with wizards, and the Thief (through 2e having the worst XP rules) was incentivised to steal, including from the other party members and the Templar had to work for the bad guys. This "will cause table friction" goes beyond anything in the classes you've listed.Then we can move on to the worst class in 3.X - the Truenamer. Which simply mechanically did not work. (If Heroes of Shadow is fair game, so is Complete Arcane).Next we move on to the 3.0 Monk - which was an attempt to convert the AD&D 1e Monk into 3.0. It was a slight improvement in that it had a d8 for a hit dice rather than 2d4 at first level then 1d4 after that and didn't have to challenge people to level up. But it also lost in the transition - it uses thief attack bonuses, has no AC to speak of, and it's supposed to be mobile but can't be both mobile and make full round attacks. It's a grab-bag of non-synergystic abilities and incompetence at normal things. The 3.5 monk rewrite is a slight improvement but only a slight one.Then we move on to the pre-4e Thieves and Rogues. All of them. (Except the 2e Bard). The Thief getting its situational thief skills but nothing very much. And the rogue getting 8+Int skill points per level to replace the 8 thief skills plus the Non Weapon Proficiencies. Oh, and the rogue's sneak attack not applying to Constructs, Undead, anything immune to crits, and from memory anything with concealment.Moving out of the PHB we get the Soulknife. "My big class ability is ... a magic shortsword that at level 20 hits +5. To make up for this truly stunningly powerful ability I'm stuck on the cleric/rogue BAB chart and can only wear light armour". Give me the vampire every time. We also have the 3.5 Ninja (a worse rogue), the Complete Warrior Samurai (essentially a fighter forced to TWF with bastard sword + shortsword under 3.5 rules), the 3.5 Swashbuckler (essentially a light armour only fighter forced to spend feats on Finesse) and more. And that's without going into the 2e kits or Dragon magazine.By the standards of the genuinely bad classes the only thing the 4e vampire sucked was blood. For that matter the 3.0/3.5 Paladin is also better than all the classes I've mentioned above except the Vampire and arguably the rogues.</blockquote>

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