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Message: <blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 1494671" data-attributes="member: 14140">Ok so at least we are both using the rules!As i mentioned in the original example, there are two costs, one lower than the 200-205 range and one higher, depending on a subjective GM choice.Since my guess is we all agree that weak tail brick should point out, by common sense if nothing else, between 200 and 205, then either 16 pts low or 30 some points high are both pretty bad results. Its up to the Gm i guess to figure out whether charging 30 pts too much or saving 16 pts for no reasons is worse.How did i get to the higher value as a possibility?Strength and Dex are primary characteristics.in the weak tail brick, we are applying, per the rule you cited, a -1/4 limitation to these primary characteristics.HERo pg 92 tells us (second paragraph under "Characteristics")  how to apply limitations to primary characteristics and specifically about the figured characteristics.last sentence reads "if the limitation does not limit the figured characteristics, then the limited primary characteristic does notadd to the figured characteristic..." They then give an example."Not usable by tail" (or however you want to name this lim) has no effect whatsoever on speed, stun, recovery, or endurance at all. If your game features hit locations (not the norm for supers games) then it might apply to the PD IF the tail has its own hit locations from a custom designed hit location chart. i am assuming not for this example, sticking with normal rules.So, in our case, lets look at the strength. The tailless brick and full strength tail brick have  60 strength costing 50 and providing a free 12 PD, 12 of the 18 recovery, and 30 of the 60 stun.The weak tail brick has 10 real strength and 50 strength with the limitation of "not for the tail" which means the strength only costs him 4- but it only provides him with 2 PD (not 12), 2 of the 18 recovery (not 12), and 5 stun (not 30). Buying back those lost figured characteristics (remember, all three bricks had the same PD, etc...) will run him 10 for the PD, 20 for the recovery and 30ish for the stun (or maybe it was 25 because i think i had sold back 5 stun but oh nevermind) ...in short, because limiting his strength costs him the figured characteristics, he spends MORE to keep the same stats since he has to buy figured characteristics. Then we repeat the process for speed figured from dex and find a few more points...As i look at it, my math might be off, but its in the ballpark... so the final rub is...if the Gm uses the rules... then either...weak tail will weigh in some 15 pts cheaper than the brick with identical stats but no tail at all  (assumes Gm elects to not apply the page 90 limited primary characteristcs rule) and be able **by dint of adding a weak tail extra limb which the other guy does not have at all** buy say +3 to hit to "compensate" with his saved points... or...weak tail will weigh in about 25-35 pts more than the guy with the full strength tail.Now, while Gms may differ on whether overcharging a character 30ish points is worse ot not worse than undercharging  him 15ish... some Gms feel giving the player unwarranted points will create more balance problems than giving them too few...  i prefer to just look at it and say... "its obvious to anyone who did not do the HERo math dance that weak tail should weigh in between strong tail and no tail, so both under by 15ish and over by 30ish are just plain wrong and silly."In this case, doing the math did indeed as you have said "give us a number", two in fact, but neither was even close to being right.</blockquote>

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