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<blockquote data-quote="Sir Whiskers" data-source="post: 1495695" data-attributes="member: 6941">SWD:No offense (I mean that), but you seem to be attacking straw-men. I've read the entire thread, and the only person stating the assertion that total points is a perfect measure for comparing the effectiveness of powers is...you (as you then proceed to demolish that assertion). No one who has any experience with the system thinks that simply comparing points is enough. Buzz sure hasn't said that.What was said is that the math within the system does most of the work. If you want to quibble with the word &quot;most&quot;, go ahead. But I really don't think anyone is disagreeing with your main point: that there are better and worse builds, using identical points. Of course. For many players, myself included, that's part of the fun of the system - figuring out how to create an effective character, while still making one that's fun to play. But just as levels are a D&amp;D standard for comparing approximate ability, so are total points - an approximation which can be useful (just not perfect).As for the player who &quot;hoses&quot; himself by designing a character with an AoE attack as his main power, well that's what GM's are for. The fact that a newbie is able to design an ineffective character isn't unique to Hero, just more likely given &quot;all the math&quot; in the system. In Hero, a GM must pay careful attention to all character designs, not just to stop the experienced guys from breaking the system, but also to help the newbies design effective characters.&nbsp; BTW, I design AoE attacks all the time. No, they're not the typically the character's main attack, but in some encounters they get used more than any other attack power - versus groups, versus speedsters or high-dex opponents, and so on. And an AoE entangle can be devasting in setting up my team members to take down the bad guys. Circumstances matter. No one build is optimal in all situations. Which is why I love this system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sir Whiskers, post: 1495695, member: 6941"] SWD: No offense (I mean that), but you seem to be attacking straw-men. I've read the entire thread, and the only person stating the assertion that total points is a perfect measure for comparing the effectiveness of powers is...you (as you then proceed to demolish that assertion). No one who has any experience with the system thinks that simply comparing points is enough. Buzz sure hasn't said that. What was said is that the math within the system does [B]most[/B] of the work. If you want to quibble with the word "most", go ahead. But I really don't think anyone is disagreeing with your main point: that there are better and worse builds, using identical points. Of course. For many players, myself included, that's part of the fun of the system - figuring out how to create an effective character, while still making one that's fun to play. But just as levels are a D&D standard for comparing approximate ability, so are total points - an approximation which can be useful (just not perfect). As for the player who "hoses" himself by designing a character with an AoE attack as his main power, well that's what GM's are for. The fact that a newbie is able to design an ineffective character isn't unique to Hero, just more likely given "all the math" in the system. In Hero, a GM must pay careful attention to all character designs, not just to stop the experienced guys from breaking the system, but also to help the newbies design effective characters. BTW, I design AoE attacks all the time. No, they're not the typically the character's main attack, but in some encounters they get used more than any other attack power - versus groups, versus speedsters or high-dex opponents, and so on. And an AoE entangle can be devasting in setting up my team members to take down the bad guys. Circumstances matter. No one build is optimal in all situations. Which is why I love this system. [/QUOTE]

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