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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sir Brennen" data-source="post: 4599498" data-attributes="member: 553">Here I think is the crux of the problem. You're presenting a straw man argument. No one is actually saying that your level or weapon bonus or Paragon powers has come to mean Hero, except you. To get these things a player has had to take his character through numerous adventures, most likely of a heroic nature. The numbers on the character's sheet are nothing more than a guideline to show the PC's progress as a result of his heroic actions, not a definition of them. One thing the stats, powers, feats, etc. do show is that heroes are individuals, capable of a wide variety of ways and means to accomplish their heroic endeavors, and not just cookie-cutter white knights in shining armor.Even if I create a higher level character to join a campaign already in progress, (or replace a character that has died), I still decide what his background is, what his motivations are, and what type of previous adventures allowed him to advance to the point he is at. He has a story. He is presumed to have done heroic things. Another thing the mechanics do is give a guide to what type of heroic adventures the character can embark upon. You wouldn't have a party of first level scrubs taking on the Lich King in his extra-dimensional stronghold right away. But over the course of a campaign, wherein they do many heroic things, they'll eventually get there. They don't earn their Epic powers and magic items sitting in a warehouse playing gin rummy.Now, maybe you do know some people that play RPG's with an eye toward nothing more than "what do I get when I level up?" And you know what, it's a game, there's nothing wrong with that. It's a game, with a carrot 'n' stick built into it. You lay the blame on modern RPGs, but it's always been that way. I think that this is a natural view for people new to role-playing, as they are still learning and getting to experience the untried things that advancing brings. And I think it was even more common in earlier editions, because a much greater percentage of players were new. But even with the players who obsessed over getting their Strength to 18/00, people where still enjoying the exploits of their fictional persona in a fantasy world. They were still having their characters act like heroes. And if a player sticks with roleplaying long enough that he's more comfortable with the mechanics, more attention will typically be paid to the story and their PC's place in it.So I reject your premise that "hero" has come to mean what's on a character's sheet, or that giggling that "I have Hyper-Cleave!" is somehow mutually exclusive with roleplaying a noble barbarian out to regain his tribe's honor in a heroic campaign.</blockquote>

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