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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4599838" data-attributes="member: 18280">I am not saying that there is nothing there......I have thrown ogres at 1st level PCs.&nbsp; What I am saying is that, in previous editions to 3.0, there was a range of monsters you probably couldn't take, but that you could survive a few rounds with.&nbsp; That alone pushed players to engage with creatures that would normally be out of their league.&nbsp; An ogre in 3e can be taken by using ranged options by 1st level characters, if they meet him out in the open.&nbsp; I've seen 4th level PCs lose a character to an ogre in melee.Actually, though, I am a tad mistaken in saying WotC-D&amp;D vs TSR-D&amp;D, because in 4e monster damage ranges take a step back towards 1e, with the same result -- players can consider engaging monsters that prudence would suggest they not engage in 3e.&nbsp; This is one of the things I applaud in 4e.IMHO and IME, of course.&nbsp; YMMV.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4599838, member: 18280"] I am not saying that there is nothing there......I have thrown ogres at 1st level PCs. What I am saying is that, in previous editions to 3.0, there was a range of monsters you probably couldn't take, but that you could survive a few rounds with. That alone pushed players to engage with creatures that would normally be out of their league. An ogre in 3e can be taken by using ranged options by 1st level characters, if they meet him out in the open. I've seen 4th level PCs lose a character to an ogre in melee. Actually, though, I am a tad mistaken in saying WotC-D&D vs TSR-D&D, because in 4e monster damage ranges take a step back towards 1e, with the same result -- players can consider engaging monsters that prudence would suggest they not engage in 3e. This is one of the things I applaud in 4e. IMHO and IME, of course. YMMV. RC [/QUOTE]

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