Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Hidden Rules
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 5079715" data-attributes="member: 3424"><p>I believe that no matter how simple or complex the ruleset, the DM can always create a hidden rule. Hidden rules could range from a new rule which the players are expected to discover, or changing the way an existing rule works. While the former may be more common in a simple ruleset while the latter may be more common in a complex ruleset, any of them could happen in either ruleset. In addition, a rule may effectively be "hidden" from the players simply because they do not know about it!</p><p></p><p>Given that hidden rules may be encountered in any system, one important role for the DM is to lead the players through the process of discovering the rule, usually through trial and error. The way I see it, there are two potential pitfalls here.</p><p></p><p>First is the problem of <strong>incompatible worldviews</strong>, as mentioned earlier. Ideally, what the players attempt should result in reasonable consequences (barring complications such as incomplete or incorrect information - see below). Of course, the key problem is that different people can sometimes have very different ideas of what is reasonable. One person's clever solution that should succeed can be another person's abhorrent scheme that ought to fail. When this happens to people on different sides of the DM screen, the DM may find himself either wondering why the players don't take the obvious approach, or aghast that the players are prepared to do something that he never thought they would. The consequences of a choice can sometimes seem overly harsh to the players, and can be a source of player-DM conflict. Because of this ambiguity, a DM should be particularly careful when using game-ending consequences such as character death.</p><p></p><p>The second problem is that of <strong>incomplete information</strong>. In the case of a hidden rule, the DM may deliberately leave out important information because finding it is supposed to be part of the challenge of interacting with and discovering the rule. In such situations, a DM who doesn't want the game to end abruptly should avoid using game-ending consequences, or ensure that the players get sufficient feedback before the consequence happens. This is for pretty much the same reason that a game of Hangman doesn't end after just one letter is guessed incorrectly, and why the game of Twenty Questions is not called One Guess. As a side issue of this potential problem, the DM should take care to give the players any information that he is not deliberately hiding, and which the PCs ought to reasonably know (and remember not to fall into the <strong>incompatible worldviews</strong> trap above and assume that the players should know anything). </p><p></p><p>So, to sum up, when navigating your players through a hidden rule:</p><p></p><p>1. Don't assume they know anything</p><p>2. Make sure you tell them everything they should know</p><p>3. Provide constant feedback on what's happening and how they're doing</p><p>4. Use game-ending consequences sparingly</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FireLance, post: 5079715, member: 3424"] I believe that no matter how simple or complex the ruleset, the DM can always create a hidden rule. Hidden rules could range from a new rule which the players are expected to discover, or changing the way an existing rule works. While the former may be more common in a simple ruleset while the latter may be more common in a complex ruleset, any of them could happen in either ruleset. In addition, a rule may effectively be "hidden" from the players simply because they do not know about it! Given that hidden rules may be encountered in any system, one important role for the DM is to lead the players through the process of discovering the rule, usually through trial and error. The way I see it, there are two potential pitfalls here. First is the problem of [B]incompatible worldviews[/B], as mentioned earlier. Ideally, what the players attempt should result in reasonable consequences (barring complications such as incomplete or incorrect information - see below). Of course, the key problem is that different people can sometimes have very different ideas of what is reasonable. One person's clever solution that should succeed can be another person's abhorrent scheme that ought to fail. When this happens to people on different sides of the DM screen, the DM may find himself either wondering why the players don't take the obvious approach, or aghast that the players are prepared to do something that he never thought they would. The consequences of a choice can sometimes seem overly harsh to the players, and can be a source of player-DM conflict. Because of this ambiguity, a DM should be particularly careful when using game-ending consequences such as character death. The second problem is that of [B]incomplete information[/B]. In the case of a hidden rule, the DM may deliberately leave out important information because finding it is supposed to be part of the challenge of interacting with and discovering the rule. In such situations, a DM who doesn't want the game to end abruptly should avoid using game-ending consequences, or ensure that the players get sufficient feedback before the consequence happens. This is for pretty much the same reason that a game of Hangman doesn't end after just one letter is guessed incorrectly, and why the game of Twenty Questions is not called One Guess. As a side issue of this potential problem, the DM should take care to give the players any information that he is not deliberately hiding, and which the PCs ought to reasonably know (and remember not to fall into the [B]incompatible worldviews[/B] trap above and assume that the players should know anything). So, to sum up, when navigating your players through a hidden rule: 1. Don't assume they know anything 2. Make sure you tell them everything they should know 3. Provide constant feedback on what's happening and how they're doing 4. Use game-ending consequences sparingly [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Hidden Rules
Top