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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Meeki" data-source="post: 1957970" data-attributes="member: 17257">Invisible characters can be noticed with a spot check also, at not such a high DC, somewhere around 20'ish, and if the DM allows spotted with higher a higher DC.  Hiding only allows for a rogue to attack in a suprise round, thus denying the target their AC.  Getting back to the original post about hiding, rogues can dump alot of skill points into hide, that is what they are specializing in then it should be "powerful".  A creature with +4 to spot is probably not going to see the rogue, that is how it is suppose to be.  Rogues deal alot of damage in a short amount of time.  I dont know why alot of DM's feel that they need to foil all the attempts of a party to sneak up on monsters or the party's use of tactics.  That post about how the rogue fires a shot every round and ducks back around the corner, aparently your DM hasn't read the hide skill description, as pointed out in earlier posts.  People if you have rules issues LOOK in the books, most answers can be found such as the questions in these two pages of posts.</blockquote>