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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6249235" data-attributes="member: 1210">Perhaps I missed it, as this is a huge long thread full of words and stuff, but I don't think you've addressed my earlier response to your "required levels" shtick.So, let's lay it out again: First, why does only the PH count as rules text? A rule that has explicitly applied to every edition that has a DMG is "In case of contradictions, the later rules text trumps the earlier text". And the DMG always comes after the PH. Therefore, the DMG's text about "you can play whatever levels you want" is actually a bit of rules text that, technically, supercedes the fact that the tables in the PH go up to 30.Which doesn't even address the absurdity of the idea that just because it's in the books, you MUST include it in your campaign. 4e edged closer to that philosophy than previous editions, yes, but still explicitly gave the DM the word that he didn't have to.Anyway, would you say that "you are in the realm of GM fiat or even homebrew" if you run a one-shot adventure at a convention that doesn't feature the full swath of levels in the PH? Because that's the exact same thing as running a campaign from 1st to 6th (or 1st to 20th) level, in terms of not going to 30.Do you  think a game is equally removed from the rules if I ban a class, say monks, or if I say, "We don't have dwarves in this world"? Is a 1e game "homebrewed and in the realm of GM fiat" because it doesn't go up to 29th level? And where does 3e say that it only goes to level 20? I could be wrong- I'd need a citation- but I don't think it does, anywhere, ever, in 3.0 or 3.5Why all this focus on going up to level 30? Who is holding a gun to your head- and your players'- and forcing you to play above 1st if you don't want to?And more- why do you care if other people want to play high levels differently than you? If the game supports your style and theirs, why don't you celebrate the fact that more people get what they want? And yes, you CAN play epic-level 4e without fighting gods or arch-devils; you CAN keep it to orc hordes and high-level villainous humans if you want. It's surprisingly easy. Trust me- I'm running epic 4e, and while sometimes it's all gods and demons, at other times it's high level necromancers, death priests and troglodyte zombies galore. Both work; both are supported; you aren't left out. Why is it important to NOT support the guys who want their gods statted and available to kill (which, I'll remind you, is a tradition going back to at least 1e)?</blockquote>

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