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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8208764" data-attributes="member: 71699">A few thoughts come to mind when analysing this claim. One possible doubt might be whether you are a reliable witness? Might your strong convictions affect your perceptions? Another doubt might be whether you have sufficient experience? Have you played with a sufficiently large sample of RPG players?I raise those doubts not in order to say that you are an unreliable witness or lacking sufficient experience, but to point out that you would presumably need to be taken to be as a reliable witness with sufficient experience before accepting your claim. And there would need to be no other parties just as capable of meeting such criteria while reporting versions at odds with your own. The latter points to another way of assessing your claim, which is to ask whether it chimes with one's own?My experience with such players is that they simply don't meet the terms of immersion that either of us is advocating. They're not construing their character's actions given the pantheon of gods is real and they have a direct line to one. They aren't responding in an immersed fashion to the terrifying or mysterious creatures around them. They're not considering their paladin oath and refusing to lie or cheat, or let their words be their promise. Some might be enjoying a non-immersive, pushing-pawns, mode of play... or possibly not even that, if they are truly putting in zero effort.I believe your complaint has nothing to do with preferred mode of immersion. It can be addressed by players adopting any mode of immersion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8208764, member: 71699"] A few thoughts come to mind when analysing this claim. One possible doubt might be whether you are a reliable witness? Might your strong convictions affect your perceptions? Another doubt might be whether you have sufficient experience? Have you played with a sufficiently large sample of RPG players? I raise those doubts not in order to say that you are an unreliable witness or lacking sufficient experience, but to point out that you would presumably need to be taken to be as a reliable witness with sufficient experience before accepting your claim. And there would need to be no other parties just as capable of meeting such criteria while reporting versions at odds with your own. The latter points to another way of assessing your claim, which is to ask whether it chimes with one's own? My experience with such players is that they simply don't meet the terms of immersion that either of us is advocating. They're not construing their character's actions given the pantheon of gods is real and they have a direct line to one. They aren't responding in an immersed fashion to the terrifying or mysterious creatures around them. They're not considering their paladin oath and refusing to lie or cheat, or let their words be their promise. Some might be enjoying a non-immersive, pushing-pawns, mode of play... or possibly not even that, if they are truly putting in zero effort. I believe your complaint has nothing to do with preferred mode of immersion. It can be addressed by players adopting [I]any [/I]mode of immersion. [/QUOTE]

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