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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Banshee16" data-source="post: 3372656" data-attributes="member: 7883">When making a monstrously effective character is your only motivation, and it means that you're only there to be a combat master, and the rest of the time, you're either trying to get the rest of the party into fights, in order to beat up things more often, or completely clamming up for non-combat aspects of the game?  That's all part of power gaming.Further, the style has less value if the other players aren't into it.  As a DM, you're forced to make encounters lethal in order to challenge the power gamer, but often this puts them beyond the capabilities of the rest of the group who haven't twinked their characters.I think you've got the wrong thread <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Unless I've got amnesia, I haven't talked anything about making arrows.I have two threads on the issue.  One is where my group dissolved, and one of the complaints was about the utter lack of roleplaying by one of the players.  The older thread, which was months ago, discussed the problems caused by the powergamer in the party making a character so lethal that encounters had to be so difficult, in order to challenge him, that the rest of the party was getting slaughtered.It was very much a "look at me, look how tough I am" kind of attitude.But nothing about making arrows...This last statement, I'd agree with.  My homegrown powergamer was also a rules lawyer, so he'd argue points, in game, which slowed things to a halt.  Typically it was only when it worked to his advantage.  He'd find a loophole, when it benefited him...but if that loophole was later used against him, all of a sudden, it's not acceptable.Regarding handwaving, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, so I apologize if that's how it came across.  I was simply expressing that I disagree that it's always bad *if* that's what you were trying to say.Maybe it's just me, but sometimes, during something like a foot chase through crowded city streets, it really breaks the entire scene up to pull out the battle map and start utilizing movement rates and everything to figure out where everyone is.  It's far more exciting to put that edge of excitement in your voice, lean in to the players, and start narrating what they're seeing as they chase the thief, how they react when he knocks over the apple cart, etc. etc.To me, that's handwaiving.  I didn't necessarily role a check to see if the thief can knock over that car.  It's far more exciting to describe that it just happen, and then find out how the players deal with it.I am absolutely aware.  To a degree or other, any game can be powergamed.  But games with more handwaving leave more up to the GM, and as a result, it's more inherently accepted in those games that the GM may just overrule or disallow certain things.  And sometimes, that makes for better drama.I will not deny that it has improved in many ways.  But I think that, somewhat, the pendulum has swung the other way.  It's far too mired in certain assumptions....ie. X many encounters per day, 4 character party, magic items a central part of balance, etc.  It makes it more difficult to make games where some of those conventions aren't true.Examples are settings like Midnight or Swashbuckling Adventures, where there are few to no magic items.  This throws all kinds of things off....PC attack and defense capabilities, healing etc.  Which in turn requires recalculation of encounter CRs etc.  Then the creation of new feats that take the place of openings created by the lack of certain things (such as rings of protection) that the game assumes you have by certain levels, etc.Banshee</blockquote>

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