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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Set" data-source="post: 3373133" data-attributes="member: 41584">I don't see it as an edition thing at all.  I made grotequely unbalanced characters back in 2e, as thought experiments, and occasionally my group would get together and make the sickest party we could and tear through Against the Giants or something.  (The Wizard was a Krynn Minotaur, and the least twinky, the Fighters included a Wemic and a 4-glaive-limbed Xixchil, the Priest was an Ogre Mage.  Good times.  Much giant booty was kicked, and the Wemic and Xixchil spent every combat competing for who could kill the most giants, none of which, including the chieftan, lasted through a single round against either one of them.)Sometimes it's fun to play the D&D equivalent of Toon.The problem is when different players are playing using different styles.  If one is playing a twinked-out oversized Monkey-Gripped dual-Spiked-Chain-wielding Exotic Weapon Master Goliath, the other three are playing normal characters and the GM's special friend is playing a pacifist Bard who wants to try and use her Diplomacy skill (which she kinda forgot to buy ranks in...) to convince the Dragon to be good, the game is in for a spectacular death-spiral.*That's* the only problem, IMO.  GMs not sitting down with their players in advance and setting the guidelines.  It isn't enough, as a player, to make a butt-kicking character.  D&D isn't a solo experience, it's a collaborative effort, and part of making it fun is making it fun for everyone.  You can't do that unless you are willing to build a character that works within the structures of the party.Let's look at a famous adventuring party.  Drow ranger.  Human fighter.  Another Human fighter.  Dwarven fighter.  The GM needed to sit down and explain to the players that someone needed to be playing a healer, someone should be playing a trapfinder / social character and the party surely wouldn't hurt having an arcane spellcaster of some sort.  But no, he sat back as they generated a quartest of fighters, and then sure enough, they started dying off, being wholly unqualified to adventure together.  One character immediately began to outshine the others, thanks to his TWF specialization and superior stats, and the others quickly lost interest and quit playing.  Bad party design.  Bob Salvatore needs to practice in front of a mirror saying, 'No.' to his players until they work together to design a party that plays well together.'Cause if you can't pull your crap together and coordinate with the other players before the dice start falling, it's gonna be a freaking disaster when the first combat encounter begins!This isn't Vampire or Diplomacy or Paranoia, where screwing over your fellow party-members is encouraged and rewarded, after all!Yeah, but why the heck would they be posting to this thread, being all busy with the non-gaming-related-life-having-thing?Gosh.  I'm so depressed that some faceless stranger on a message board devoted to role-playing games has accused us of having no life for being gamers.  How could I have wasted my lack-of-life in shameless pursuit of fun?Aiiee!  The shame![Is it true that there is a big burning thing in the sky?  'Cause, being a gamer, I've never actually been out of my parent's basement or anything...]</blockquote>

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