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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8059563" data-attributes="member: 6795602">And you want to prove it does matter - so you jump to the conclusion that I'm being unreasonable by pointing out that fireball and other aoe spells I'm using it to stand in for trivialize encounters against many low hp enemies.  If they are doing that then you aren't getting killing blows against low hp enemies, which ends up lowering the overkill application factor as you only can apply overkill to enemies your PC kills. Just as your suspicious of anyone bringing up a specific set of scenarios to bolster their point - I'm suspicious of anyone that falls back to claims of tactical inferiority to try and counter that point.My move, your move.It's not just fireball though.  It's any effective aoe.  Anything that trivializes the encounter to the point where you are just going through the mop up motions.  I've focused on the damage aspect because it's easier to show but it's really anything.  Because we are talking about impact - what you accomplish in the mop up rounds means very little. And to elaborate just a bit more, the point I'm making isn't that every single encounter against alot of foes will be decided by effective aoe's - just that many of them will.  I'm talking about the factor most often overlooked in overkills impact - the factor you use to turn overkill from a per kill metric to a per round metric.  Talking about the cases where it's going to be most effective being quite a bit less common (and less important) due to abilities that often trivialize those scenarios is a very important point. Again - my case has never been that overkill doesn't have any impact - it's that it's impact on average over a campaign is minimal.So showing that overkill doesn't matter in cases it doesn't matter and then qualitatively and quantitively comparing those cases to the broader picture is precisely the point.  Overkill is a per kill metric.  We need a conversion factor to convert it into a per round factor.  The argument is that you are weighting the cases where it's most useful much more highly than they should be weighted.</blockquote>

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