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General Tabletop Discussion
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The Importance of Verisimilitude (or "Why you don't need realism to keep it real")
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<blockquote data-quote="Pedantic" data-source="post: 9150683" data-attributes="member: 6690965"><p>You keep saying things like they're some kind of mask off moment when they're just restatements of the exact point. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> Magic is an appealing design space because there's your mechanical technique limitations can also be your setting limitations. No one knows or even has an intuition how many spells per day a Wizard can cast, or how strong a magically conjured shield should be, so whatever you say is true goes, and is appropriate as both a mechanical and setting contrivance. Mundane combat does not enjoy those same benefits, and suffers thereby.</p><p></p><p>Trying to make the fighter a balanced archetype requires not only taking on "classes should be balanced" and "magic should do less than it does now" but also "fighters shouldn't be the 'normal' class" as premises you have to get everyone on board with. The definitional thing about the fighter is that it doesn't get to be a Paladin, and worse, it doesn't even get to be a Rogue. All of the arguments about fighter contribution tend to address the first two points, and try to assume the last one as a given, which simply doesn't work.</p><p></p><p>If the fighter is defined by being normal, then it can't do fantastical things. If you give out a fantastical thing to do, you're just going to get "oh so you made it not a fighter?" as a response. The point is that the complaint against giving fighters 1/day specific moves and giving fighters level appropriate abilities have the same motivation, and that motivation is orthogonal to questions of game balance. It does not matter from that perspective whether the fighter is balanced; my contention is that it doesn't even matter whether the fighter is <em>present</em> in the game. </p><p></p><p>The poisoned well is the "Fighter" conceptually itself; pick the stuff you want Fighters to be doing and find a different archetype that gets to the same place. Simply asserting that you don't care about the fictional justification doesn't fix the issue.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pedantic, post: 9150683, member: 6690965"] You keep saying things like they're some kind of mask off moment when they're just restatements of the exact point. :p Magic is an appealing design space because there's your mechanical technique limitations can also be your setting limitations. No one knows or even has an intuition how many spells per day a Wizard can cast, or how strong a magically conjured shield should be, so whatever you say is true goes, and is appropriate as both a mechanical and setting contrivance. Mundane combat does not enjoy those same benefits, and suffers thereby. Trying to make the fighter a balanced archetype requires not only taking on "classes should be balanced" and "magic should do less than it does now" but also "fighters shouldn't be the 'normal' class" as premises you have to get everyone on board with. The definitional thing about the fighter is that it doesn't get to be a Paladin, and worse, it doesn't even get to be a Rogue. All of the arguments about fighter contribution tend to address the first two points, and try to assume the last one as a given, which simply doesn't work. If the fighter is defined by being normal, then it can't do fantastical things. If you give out a fantastical thing to do, you're just going to get "oh so you made it not a fighter?" as a response. The point is that the complaint against giving fighters 1/day specific moves and giving fighters level appropriate abilities have the same motivation, and that motivation is orthogonal to questions of game balance. It does not matter from that perspective whether the fighter is balanced; my contention is that it doesn't even matter whether the fighter is [I]present[/I] in the game. The poisoned well is the "Fighter" conceptually itself; pick the stuff you want Fighters to be doing and find a different archetype that gets to the same place. Simply asserting that you don't care about the fictional justification doesn't fix the issue. [/QUOTE]
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Community
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The Importance of Verisimilitude (or "Why you don't need realism to keep it real")
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