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The Importance of Verisimilitude (or "Why you don't need realism to keep it real")
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<blockquote data-quote="Levistus's_Leviathan" data-source="post: 9178899" data-attributes="member: 7023887"><p>I can honestly say that I cannot remember a single instance where my game was ruined by a lack of immersion. I can think of several where they were by mechanical imbalance, poorly designed mechanics, or other more common/major problems. </p><p></p><p>The reason I made the post is that the whole deal of "all mechanical features need to be explained by lore" seems a bit extreme, and the example of "why doesn't the game give a lore reason for Dragon Scale Mail being weaker than living dragon scales" seemed to exemplify the trivial nature of the issue. Who cares? If a minor mechanical discrepancy was designed for game balance, who cares if the DMG doesn't explain it? As I demonstrated in the previous post, it is trivially easy to come up with a justification as a DM. In the few cases where I've included Dragonscale Armor in my games none of my players have ever questioned why it doesn't grant full immunity to a damage type or less AC than the dragon. In similar situations where I have had my players ask for a reason, they've never made a big deal if I say "if I let this Potion of Dragon Breath deal the same amount of damage as an Adult Dragon, it would ruin balance, so that's why it's less powerful". </p><p></p><p>As someone that has consumed a lot of online media criticism, this is very similar to when a critic gives a list of highly improbably coincidences necessary for the plot to happen. Sometimes the plot contrivances are so major, noticeable, or there's just too many of them that it makes it difficult to maintain my suspension of disbelief, but most of the time I'm fine with ignoring a minor contrivance so I can still enjoy the movie. In D&D Honor Among Thieves, why does Simon get his foot stuck for so long while distracting the guards? It would be very easy to pull your shoe out of that hole. The reason is because it lets the directors include <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jofn_9rPbzo&t=63s" target="_blank">one of the best scenes in the movie</a>, and I'm more than willing to ignore the contrivance in order to enjoy the amazing scene. </p><p></p><p>It's the same issue. Sometimes you have to suspend your disbelief to enjoy the game. And a lot of the complaints I've seen here seem a bit trivial or pedantic. The kind of stuff that, in my experience, really is not a big deal. </p><p></p><p>Okay. Perhaps I should explain. When I started playing and DMing for D&D, I was still a teenager. And as someone on the autism spectrum, I tend to like things being orderly/consistent. I spent a lot of time while learning how to DM trying to figure out the math of the game, breaking down all of the stat blocks in the Monster Manual to figure out how they calculated attack bonus, damage rolls, hit points, and all kinds of minor aspects of them. It was an anxiety-driven need to understand the math of the system and irrational fear of/hatred to the rare case where something didn't fit with the formula of 5e. If an NPC had a mace that dealt 2d6 base bludgeoning damage and they weren't Large and didn't have the Brute feature (what Bugbears have), it annoyed me to no end.</p><p></p><p>For me, getting over this irrational compulsion for the system to be perfectly logical and consistent was something I did "grow out of". I've gotten better at controlling my knee-jerk gut reactions to stuff like this in general, not just for D&D. For me, it was a matter of maturity and growth. It was an irrational aspect of being an adolescent with autism, and I've moved on from that kind of minor nitpicking. I'm not saying that you or for other people in this thread have the same problem, but for me it was definitely an irrational, anxiety-based aversion to things not fitting nice and neat. </p><p></p><p>For an example of how WotC has shifted their game design since 2014, given WotC's recent changes to stat block design, I would be very surprised if the Angels in the 2024 Monster Manual have the Angelic Weapon feature. The game doesn't need to explain why the Deva does an extra 4d8 radiant damage on all of its weapons, it's a freaking angel, and its weapons deal an extra 4d8 radiant damage. The Giants in Bigby's often deal unexplained extra elemental damage with their weapons, so I would be surprised if WotC didn't update the angels to fit their newer design style.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Levistus's_Leviathan, post: 9178899, member: 7023887"] I can honestly say that I cannot remember a single instance where my game was ruined by a lack of immersion. I can think of several where they were by mechanical imbalance, poorly designed mechanics, or other more common/major problems. The reason I made the post is that the whole deal of "all mechanical features need to be explained by lore" seems a bit extreme, and the example of "why doesn't the game give a lore reason for Dragon Scale Mail being weaker than living dragon scales" seemed to exemplify the trivial nature of the issue. Who cares? If a minor mechanical discrepancy was designed for game balance, who cares if the DMG doesn't explain it? As I demonstrated in the previous post, it is trivially easy to come up with a justification as a DM. In the few cases where I've included Dragonscale Armor in my games none of my players have ever questioned why it doesn't grant full immunity to a damage type or less AC than the dragon. In similar situations where I have had my players ask for a reason, they've never made a big deal if I say "if I let this Potion of Dragon Breath deal the same amount of damage as an Adult Dragon, it would ruin balance, so that's why it's less powerful". As someone that has consumed a lot of online media criticism, this is very similar to when a critic gives a list of highly improbably coincidences necessary for the plot to happen. Sometimes the plot contrivances are so major, noticeable, or there's just too many of them that it makes it difficult to maintain my suspension of disbelief, but most of the time I'm fine with ignoring a minor contrivance so I can still enjoy the movie. In D&D Honor Among Thieves, why does Simon get his foot stuck for so long while distracting the guards? It would be very easy to pull your shoe out of that hole. The reason is because it lets the directors include [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jofn_9rPbzo&t=63s']one of the best scenes in the movie[/URL], and I'm more than willing to ignore the contrivance in order to enjoy the amazing scene. It's the same issue. Sometimes you have to suspend your disbelief to enjoy the game. And a lot of the complaints I've seen here seem a bit trivial or pedantic. The kind of stuff that, in my experience, really is not a big deal. Okay. Perhaps I should explain. When I started playing and DMing for D&D, I was still a teenager. And as someone on the autism spectrum, I tend to like things being orderly/consistent. I spent a lot of time while learning how to DM trying to figure out the math of the game, breaking down all of the stat blocks in the Monster Manual to figure out how they calculated attack bonus, damage rolls, hit points, and all kinds of minor aspects of them. It was an anxiety-driven need to understand the math of the system and irrational fear of/hatred to the rare case where something didn't fit with the formula of 5e. If an NPC had a mace that dealt 2d6 base bludgeoning damage and they weren't Large and didn't have the Brute feature (what Bugbears have), it annoyed me to no end. For me, getting over this irrational compulsion for the system to be perfectly logical and consistent was something I did "grow out of". I've gotten better at controlling my knee-jerk gut reactions to stuff like this in general, not just for D&D. For me, it was a matter of maturity and growth. It was an irrational aspect of being an adolescent with autism, and I've moved on from that kind of minor nitpicking. I'm not saying that you or for other people in this thread have the same problem, but for me it was definitely an irrational, anxiety-based aversion to things not fitting nice and neat. For an example of how WotC has shifted their game design since 2014, given WotC's recent changes to stat block design, I would be very surprised if the Angels in the 2024 Monster Manual have the Angelic Weapon feature. The game doesn't need to explain why the Deva does an extra 4d8 radiant damage on all of its weapons, it's a freaking angel, and its weapons deal an extra 4d8 radiant damage. The Giants in Bigby's often deal unexplained extra elemental damage with their weapons, so I would be surprised if WotC didn't update the angels to fit their newer design style. [/QUOTE]
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