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The importance to RPGing of *engaging* situations
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8922505" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>I’m out of town so not going to be able to get as meaty a post up as I would like (with supporting play excerpts). But let me just say that I really like your postings so far; your thoughtfulness, clarity , and willingness to engage at a technical level! While ENWorld has a cultural history of taking offense at “jargon” and expressing offense at the connotation of a descriptor like “Parasitic” (well…at least the history is there if the jargon and offense-taking is downstream of Forge analysis!), that won’t be happening here. Its a good piece of technical vocabulary I think (even if this is my first encountering it), and you’ve explained the concept well.</p><p></p><p>That being said…</p><p></p><p>I don’t think the dynamics of your “Parasitic Design” capture the ethos or intentful design or actual experience and outputs of play in games like Blades or Torchbearer.</p><p></p><p>Yes, the Skilled Play threshold is high and you absolutely get punished for “misplays” (in Torchbeaer especially), but neither of those games are designed to ensure a “stall” or “unrecoverable spiral.” That can happen through a succession of misplays for sure. But its not encoded.</p><p></p><p>Further, both of those games have a similar “arc of prowess wave-cresting” lets call it. It’s absolutely at Tier 2 (where you’re likely Quality 3 in several shticks, have Allies to call upon, have potent Cohorts, Advances, Resists, and Action Roll Dots) for Blades and then again at Tier 4. Torchbearer is s little more dynamic and malleable with respect to this, but there are clear step changes in prowess by Level 4 and then again at 6.</p><p></p><p>And again, in Blades the base competency built into a PC by way of all discrete and intersecting tactical and strategic levers and widgets available from “Go” (to control the trajectory of the gamestate) is far, far more than any D&D game I’ve run outside of 4e. Torchbearer has similar levers and widgets but they’re in Descriptor-Based-Abilities and thematic/dramatic currency which broadens and amplifies your ability to dictate Tests/Contests and then Win a healthy share of the “must-haves” while settling for Failures (and Failure in TB is rough but its “forward”) and having a nice measure of ability to dictate when they occur (like using a Trait against you to earn Checks, a mandatory currency for powering Camp phase, and maybe accrue a mandatory Failure toward Advancement on a Test where the Consequence-space is one you feel you can bear).</p><p></p><p>Anyhoo, I like your designator, I just don’t see it applying to these games (in fact, I would say that some of the things you’re invoking are precisely why BitD and TB are such beautifully crafted game engines that distill masterful play from skillful play from less than from “misplay city!”).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8922505, member: 6696971"] I’m out of town so not going to be able to get as meaty a post up as I would like (with supporting play excerpts). But let me just say that I really like your postings so far; your thoughtfulness, clarity , and willingness to engage at a technical level! While ENWorld has a cultural history of taking offense at “jargon” and expressing offense at the connotation of a descriptor like “Parasitic” (well…at least the history is there if the jargon and offense-taking is downstream of Forge analysis!), that won’t be happening here. Its a good piece of technical vocabulary I think (even if this is my first encountering it), and you’ve explained the concept well. That being said… I don’t think the dynamics of your “Parasitic Design” capture the ethos or intentful design or actual experience and outputs of play in games like Blades or Torchbearer. Yes, the Skilled Play threshold is high and you absolutely get punished for “misplays” (in Torchbeaer especially), but neither of those games are designed to ensure a “stall” or “unrecoverable spiral.” That can happen through a succession of misplays for sure. But its not encoded. Further, both of those games have a similar “arc of prowess wave-cresting” lets call it. It’s absolutely at Tier 2 (where you’re likely Quality 3 in several shticks, have Allies to call upon, have potent Cohorts, Advances, Resists, and Action Roll Dots) for Blades and then again at Tier 4. Torchbearer is s little more dynamic and malleable with respect to this, but there are clear step changes in prowess by Level 4 and then again at 6. And again, in Blades the base competency built into a PC by way of all discrete and intersecting tactical and strategic levers and widgets available from “Go” (to control the trajectory of the gamestate) is far, far more than any D&D game I’ve run outside of 4e. Torchbearer has similar levers and widgets but they’re in Descriptor-Based-Abilities and thematic/dramatic currency which broadens and amplifies your ability to dictate Tests/Contests and then Win a healthy share of the “must-haves” while settling for Failures (and Failure in TB is rough but its “forward”) and having a nice measure of ability to dictate when they occur (like using a Trait against you to earn Checks, a mandatory currency for powering Camp phase, and maybe accrue a mandatory Failure toward Advancement on a Test where the Consequence-space is one you feel you can bear). Anyhoo, I like your designator, I just don’t see it applying to these games (in fact, I would say that some of the things you’re invoking are precisely why BitD and TB are such beautifully crafted game engines that distill masterful play from skillful play from less than from “misplay city!”). [/QUOTE]
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