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The impossibility of Point of Light settings
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<blockquote data-quote="Jfdlsjfd" data-source="post: 8327717" data-attributes="member: 42856"><p>PoL settings I've heard about aren't very detailed, but from what I gathered the points of lights weren't literally surrounded by monster. A small, less than a day's walk from the city, could still be safe. Danger would lurk outside the settlement, but maybe not the point of having monsters within viewing distance from the city walls. As you pointed out, much of the crops was used to support the farmer themselves (and, not marginally, to reseed the next year), so the effectiveness of Plant Growth, doubling yield, would more than double the amount of surplus to feed the city, reducing the necessary hinterland. There is also no reason to suppose the PoL was subjected to the DM's "sorry, you're on the wrong continent, you can't grow potatoes" curse that affected Europe. Even going by the low yield of the relatively barren England farmland, 14 acres were enough to support a family in a three-fields system (median of 6 persons), including reserving a fourth of their surplus for seeds. Using Plant Growth, they would double their output, supporting 13-14 persons. Your 5,000 inhabitants city would only need 9,300 acres of arable land, less than 40 square miles (that can be lessed to yield double by a single spellcaster working a month each year. They would need a safe area of less than one hour's walk from the city walls to support the 5,000 person city, less if more efficient crops are available.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The 40,000 inhabitants city of Cologne had a catchment area of 5,000 square km2. Doubled yield would reduce that as well. In a post-apocalyptic setting like PoL, it would certainly force more selective subsistance farming. It would make trade caravans (a staple of PoL settings) more important and justified.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>With the distance needed from the city, I am not sure much howling to the city would be needed. Pasture would be made easier with enlarged plants all around. Plus, easily available safe drinking water would reduce the need to grow barley, freeing space for pasture very close the the city walls.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. That's why you dont need weapons. Just go in a battlefield and use the ones widely available from the last great war against the monster invasion that created the PoL setting in the first place. Medieval cities used roman marble monuments as source of lime, reused stone for construction works, so there is no reason the same wouldn't happen with weapons (that you can restore easily with the Mending cantrip). You're right a legion would be difficult to field in a PoL settings, but I don't think such a huge military unit -- the 60 million strong roman empire never fielded more than 30 -- would be idiosyncratic of a PoL setting. It would be "one of the legendary armies of old".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You'd mostly abandon coinage and go with barter for your PoL economy. Absurd number of coins lies waiting in dungeon. For regular metals, dwarves probably have not only better mining technology than in the middle ages but better mining technology than ours. Look at the cantrip Mold Earth for the sheer amount of stone you can clear by round to reach the metals veins when building your Moria.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Said cantrip can extract a 5 ft cube of stone each round, easily cut into panes. Stone Walls wouldn't be needed: most cities would be already surrounded by huge, pre-catastrophe walls, when the population was much more important. The PoL isn't in a phase of expanding, it's being regressing into oblivion [barring heroic intervention].</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't see PoL being dangerous to the point of having dragons sleeping just outside the city walls. They are designed to reflect the supposed feel of strangeness and dangerousness of going into the <em>saltus</em> outside of settled area, a fear of "civilized people" when confronted to a dark forest... but not necessarily more common than that. You <em>could</em> encounter a dragon or a violent fey, it would be assured death but it's not necessarily more common than encountering a bear in a real life forest. It would be the feel of a hobbit (PoL: the Shire, Rivendell, the Rohirrim encampments) traveling the wider world. Most of them wouldn't cross the path of Nazguls.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jfdlsjfd, post: 8327717, member: 42856"] PoL settings I've heard about aren't very detailed, but from what I gathered the points of lights weren't literally surrounded by monster. A small, less than a day's walk from the city, could still be safe. Danger would lurk outside the settlement, but maybe not the point of having monsters within viewing distance from the city walls. As you pointed out, much of the crops was used to support the farmer themselves (and, not marginally, to reseed the next year), so the effectiveness of Plant Growth, doubling yield, would more than double the amount of surplus to feed the city, reducing the necessary hinterland. There is also no reason to suppose the PoL was subjected to the DM's "sorry, you're on the wrong continent, you can't grow potatoes" curse that affected Europe. Even going by the low yield of the relatively barren England farmland, 14 acres were enough to support a family in a three-fields system (median of 6 persons), including reserving a fourth of their surplus for seeds. Using Plant Growth, they would double their output, supporting 13-14 persons. Your 5,000 inhabitants city would only need 9,300 acres of arable land, less than 40 square miles (that can be lessed to yield double by a single spellcaster working a month each year. They would need a safe area of less than one hour's walk from the city walls to support the 5,000 person city, less if more efficient crops are available. The 40,000 inhabitants city of Cologne had a catchment area of 5,000 square km2. Doubled yield would reduce that as well. In a post-apocalyptic setting like PoL, it would certainly force more selective subsistance farming. It would make trade caravans (a staple of PoL settings) more important and justified. With the distance needed from the city, I am not sure much howling to the city would be needed. Pasture would be made easier with enlarged plants all around. Plus, easily available safe drinking water would reduce the need to grow barley, freeing space for pasture very close the the city walls. Yes. That's why you dont need weapons. Just go in a battlefield and use the ones widely available from the last great war against the monster invasion that created the PoL setting in the first place. Medieval cities used roman marble monuments as source of lime, reused stone for construction works, so there is no reason the same wouldn't happen with weapons (that you can restore easily with the Mending cantrip). You're right a legion would be difficult to field in a PoL settings, but I don't think such a huge military unit -- the 60 million strong roman empire never fielded more than 30 -- would be idiosyncratic of a PoL setting. It would be "one of the legendary armies of old". You'd mostly abandon coinage and go with barter for your PoL economy. Absurd number of coins lies waiting in dungeon. For regular metals, dwarves probably have not only better mining technology than in the middle ages but better mining technology than ours. Look at the cantrip Mold Earth for the sheer amount of stone you can clear by round to reach the metals veins when building your Moria. Said cantrip can extract a 5 ft cube of stone each round, easily cut into panes. Stone Walls wouldn't be needed: most cities would be already surrounded by huge, pre-catastrophe walls, when the population was much more important. The PoL isn't in a phase of expanding, it's being regressing into oblivion [barring heroic intervention]. I don't see PoL being dangerous to the point of having dragons sleeping just outside the city walls. They are designed to reflect the supposed feel of strangeness and dangerousness of going into the [I]saltus[/I] outside of settled area, a fear of "civilized people" when confronted to a dark forest... but not necessarily more common than that. You [I]could[/I] encounter a dragon or a violent fey, it would be assured death but it's not necessarily more common than encountering a bear in a real life forest. It would be the feel of a hobbit (PoL: the Shire, Rivendell, the Rohirrim encampments) traveling the wider world. Most of them wouldn't cross the path of Nazguls. [/QUOTE]
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