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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 5897048" data-attributes="member: 32740">Firstly, too many people discount the 1E save system far too easily, typically portraying it as senseless and arbitrary. It's not. It simply places ALL the emphasis on the level of the victim and their class, and concerns itself with the SOURCE of the magic and its intended effect. While the system is quite decent in and of itself it is indeed the numbers that are off. The Saves should progress steadily, not in jumps of several points after several levels - that's the first and easiest change which was widely implemented as a house rule even in 1E and moreso in 2E. Some of the rates of improvement are at best questionable and most importantly thief saves SUCK. I mean they REALLY suck. While they begin very much as an average of all the other classes they progress slowly and actually wind up with the worst saves overall in the game. The category of Breath Weapon also winds up being questionable in ending up with high level fighters having the best saves vs breath weapon - in itself not odd but it is when it's the best of any fighter save and the best in the game at high levels. Meanwhile thief BW saves get comparatively worse until it becomes the worst single save of any in the game. I get this image of fighters ducking, bobbing, shoulder rolling out of the way of every dragons breath while thieves stand about in the center of the fiery furnace with a blank look on their face saying, "Whahappn?" Yeah, the matrices, especially saves, needed "adjustment" of numbers. Then, of course, there's the fact that they still WERE matrices when there were better ways to factor the results (BAB instead of attack matrix, eg.) But then again, these were the sorts of things that Gygax ADMITTED were likely to happen - that he couldn't think of EVERYTHING and some people would just want to handle some stuff differently if not better.  Making those sorts of changes was expected, not shocking and rebellious.</blockquote>

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