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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5690006" data-attributes="member: 82106">Exactly. There are all kinds of types of player control that don't involve arbitrary narrative control. There are also all kinds of goals players have and reasons for playing that don't necessarily involve having narrative control.Honestly, in the vast majority of campaigns IME the players aren't particularly after deep narrative control. They aren't even necessarily after &quot;make all my choices meaningful&quot;. They are probably more interested in &quot;do I feel like fighting orcs tonight or negotiating with treants?&quot; A campaign is a long drawn-out affair and few and far between are the players that are even keeping careful track of the plot. They're much more likely to simply have some short or medium term goals or styles of play or even just mechanics that they want to mess with.The vast majority of DMing is like CJ says, if you put a bunch of plot hooks (or monsters specifically as you're putting it) out there then the players will sooner or later do X. X is convenient for the DM, the players probably don't care that much about X as an element of a larger plot, and everyone has their fun. Where railroading becomes a problem is much more likely to be at a specific point in time where the DM has inelegantly decided A MUST happen because it leads to X, and shoves A in the player's faces. The players just look at it and don't like A for whatever reason and could care less about X. At that point Chris' advice is exactly cogent, because it just amounts to &quot;be subtle about it, be patient, don't jam things down the players throats, sooner or later things will work out roughly the way you originally planned, and the players will CHOOSE to make it happen that way.&quot;Honestly, I read players well. I have not had real derailment in a long time. Most players actually WANT the overall plot/theme/concept of the campaign to stay on target, as long as they've been having fun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5690006, member: 82106"] Exactly. There are all kinds of types of player control that don't involve arbitrary narrative control. There are also all kinds of goals players have and reasons for playing that don't necessarily involve having narrative control. Honestly, in the vast majority of campaigns IME the players aren't particularly after deep narrative control. They aren't even necessarily after "make all my choices meaningful". They are probably more interested in "do I feel like fighting orcs tonight or negotiating with treants?" A campaign is a long drawn-out affair and few and far between are the players that are even keeping careful track of the plot. They're much more likely to simply have some short or medium term goals or styles of play or even just mechanics that they want to mess with. The vast majority of DMing is like CJ says, if you put a bunch of plot hooks (or monsters specifically as you're putting it) out there then the players will sooner or later do X. X is convenient for the DM, the players probably don't care that much about X as an element of a larger plot, and everyone has their fun. Where railroading becomes a problem is much more likely to be at a specific point in time where the DM has inelegantly decided A MUST happen because it leads to X, and shoves A in the player's faces. The players just look at it and don't like A for whatever reason and could care less about X. At that point Chris' advice is exactly cogent, because it just amounts to "be subtle about it, be patient, don't jam things down the players throats, sooner or later things will work out roughly the way you originally planned, and the players will CHOOSE to make it happen that way." Honestly, I read players well. I have not had real derailment in a long time. Most players actually WANT the overall plot/theme/concept of the campaign to stay on target, as long as they've been having fun. [/QUOTE]

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