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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 372286" data-attributes="member: 2013">I do like the suggestion that #2 should incorporate finessed weapons.  Including both Dex and finessed weapons is somewhat redundant, though.  I am loathe to simply use Dex as it makes finesse useless.  OTOH, it raises the viability of Weapon Finesse as a Feat... but only for one weapon. :-/  I'll have to look at that one a little more.I am not suggesting multiple rolls here... I am basically suggesting the following:A character must (a) connect with his target and (b) hit hard enough to punch through armor.I'm not using two separate attack rolls; only one.  The "attack vs. Touch AC" represents that character actually connecting, while the "normal attack vs. AC" represents the character hitting hard enough to punch through armor - without turning armor into Damage Reduction.What it works out to is not two rolls, but rather, one roll at the lesser of your chances to hit normally or through touch.  Under these rules, in order to hit, a character needs to roll the greater of (TAC-Tatt) or (AC-Att).For example, a character with a BAB of +10 and a Str bonus of +20 faces off with a foe of AC 30, all due to a blinding Dexterity (+20).Under the rules as they are written, the strong guy hits every time (except a natural 1).  Opponent's AC minus Attck Bonus is (30-30) 0.  Under the rules change I presented, the strong guy needs a (30-10) 20 to hit!Let us use a "strong guy" with a BAB of +4 and a Str bonus of +6.  Normally, that's a +10 to hit.  Now assume he is against a creature with a Dex bonus of +7 and an armor bonus of +1.  Normally, that's an AC of 18.  This means that our strong guy needs an 8 or higher to hit (AC of 18 minus Attack Bonus of 10).  However, using the new rules, we find that our strong guy also needs to "touch" him - and for that he needs a 13 (Touch AC of 17 minus Touch Attack bonus of 4).IOW, we roll a single die and here are the results (new system) - the number before the slash represents "normal" attack roll (needs to beat 18) and the number after the slash represents the "touch" attack roll (needs to beat 17):less than 6 - miss (also a miss under the old system)7 - 17/11 - miss 8 - 18/12 - miss (would have hit under old system, but Touch roll of 12 is < 17, the Touch AC)9 - 19/13 - miss (would have...)10 - 20/14 - miss (would have...)11 - 21/15 - miss (would have...)12 - 22/16 - miss (would have...)13 - 23/17 - hit since both numbers are now higher than the target (18/17) (also a hit under the old system)14+ hitHope that makes a little more sense.IOW, if you have a 50% chance to hit normally and a 50% chance to hit with touch, you still have... a 50% chance to hit.If you have a 95% chance to hit normally and a 30% chance to hit with touch, you have a 30% chance to hit.If you have a 60% chance normally and a 30% with touch, you have a 30% chance.Does that clear things up?--The Sigil</blockquote>

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