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Message: <blockquote data-quote="akbearfoot" data-source="post: 5341391" data-attributes="member: 33560">My bad on the spell component...saw the description of silver circle and must have pulled the GP cost from another spell.Magic circle says 2 different things.  It says the creatures spells can cross the boundary.  But then later it says if you use the special summoning diagram that their attacks and abilities can't cross the glyph.I made an assumption that it would be a good idea to use the diagram because then they can't use their SR and you can pre-cast the dimensional anchor to keep them from D-Dooring, or teleporting out on round #1.I like the prospect of summoning powerful outsiders, but like I said I've only ever seen it done in very rare cases.  With high costs.  I think the cheapest deal we ever got was having to pay the standard cost to buy NPC magic right out of the book.  That was when we summoned a good outsider of some kind(forget which)  to help fight against demons.Is there anything that keeps a called outsider from just calling or summoning spell of their own and having the summoned creature step on the 'line'?  In the case of good outsiders, I think a lot of them have summon monster since they cast spells usually.  In the case of evil outsiders, most of them have a way to summon more of themselves, possibly stronger guys.If I were a demon, It would seem to be in my best interests to first escape the pesky magic trap.  The naked mage would probably be willing to pay more that way. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />This whole topic does underscore the point of the OP was asking about though.  That mages are very powerful at mid-high levels.  Core melee classes just don't compete.  But instead of tryign to power everyone else up to match the spell-casters, it has always seemed more fair minded to me to make the spell-casters play 'fair'.  Most stuff can be handled with simple balance changes as they come up...for instance, getting your spells approved before you write them down on your character sheet.  Our DM usually asks in advance of leveling what sort of 'goals our characters have, or what sort of 'tricks' they are trying to develop.  So he can plan for it in advance, or let me know before I take a spell if it will work slightly differently in his world.  For instance, Disjunction isn't permanent in our game world.  Also ever since it popped up in a module once and almost TPKed us, there has been a mutual agreement on both sides and nobody uses Black tentacles.  It always magically gets replaced with something else if its on an NPC or monsters spell list.  Much happier D&D games all around with simple fixes like that.</blockquote>

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