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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 5341821" data-attributes="member: 15538">But sometimes they do feel overshadowed. Basically, in a well-rounded party that is fairly optimized, everyone from the wizard to the fighter to the bard has something they do and do well. It's just that with the right preparation, a wizard can bring down the moon. A wizard can conjure a half-decent fighter replacement with far greater ability than a fighter can fake a wizard's usefulness. Imagine two fighters. One is half-decent with a bow, uses a good Power Attack as his mainstay in melee, and has Combat Reflexes, Iron, Will, and a handful of other useful abilities. He's versatile, capable, and strong. Maybe he uses a spiked chain or some kind of reach weapon for tripping, or maybe he has Blind-Fight as a cool backup trick. The second fighter has W Focus (longsword), W Spec (longsword), Improved Critical (longsword)... you get the picture. He has Improved Initiative and Power Attack as well, so he's more effective with his (longsword). There is no question that Fighter 2 is pretty awesome with his longsword and can do some really awe-inspiring things when he gets close and cuts loose. But if these guys were partners, he would actually have to depend on Fighter 1 to set up a lot of his best scenarios. Fighter 1 has a composite bow for ranged opponents, some good tactics for groups, and can keep bad guys from swarming the group. Fighter 2 is like a cannon; Fighter 1 is like the cavalry. Fighter 2 kills things, but he has to get to the party first, and he can't deal with hydras, Glitterdust, or gargoyles with the same efficiency as Fighter 1. He's sort of hanging aroung waiting to meet meet werewolves, an enemy blackguard, or elementals or something. In a sense, Fighter 1 is the wizard. He doesn't just do one thing and do it well. He does a lot of things, and even though he isn't strictly as good in melee as Fighter 2, he is pretty close. He can also control the battlefrield better, and rarely is at a loss for options. Fighter 2 is the fighter's fighter. Now magnify that difference in versatility by twenty, and you basically have the crux of the problem.I think in some ways 3e made this problem worse, by giving casters more spells and easier access to them, lots of ways to improve their casting, and so forth, even as it tried to open up high level advancement for all characters, compared to AD&D. The problem is that the wizard just doesn't run out of things to do. He's a scene-stealer if you let him be. Still, at least the fighter has a future. Sure, a wizard can give himself a zillion hit points, but he can give a fighter two zillion. The wizard and cleric are the meat and the potatoes. The fighter is more like... celery, or something.</blockquote>

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