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Message: <blockquote data-quote="green slime" data-source="post: 5341924" data-attributes="member: 1325">If you don't see the point, and are happy to just cast oodles of spells to solve basic mundane every day problems, more power to you. But this means you'll have fewer spell options available, should something happen...Yep, but fear and respect, don't ensure true loyalty or willingness to sacrifice themselves for your cause. *shrug* some might see it as an attempt at humour. Well, we disagree. I see lots of other feat options for both classes. But if I were playing a sorcerer, I might be more tempted by other various heritage feats or reserve feats, personally. Especially if I was in a campaign that allowed me to summon 14th level clerics to do my bidding as an 11th level caster...Nope, not reading up on lots of wierd PrC's for a mere thread in Enworld. Suffice to say, if a fighter and a wizard were both aiming for different PrCs, both which required a 4 feat investment, the fighter would still have a few feats left.  That is what his standard feats are for. Fighter gets 2 feats at 6th level... He can take Leadership and one other feat. Examples are good. But so is realising that the arcane spellcasters will run out of spells towards the end of the day if they keep the pace suggested by you. How many 6th, 5th, and 4th level spells can a 12th level wizard memorize / sorcerer cast per day? Mechanically? Probably not: but it shouldn't be necessary. The point being, the wizard cannot do all this in one day, and still be potent at the end of the day. Campaign specific: 3-4 encounters per day. Sure, the wizard / sorcerer has a degree of flexibility, but there are very real limits on that flexibility. Once the sorcerer or wizard is drained of spells, they really are just a breathing bag of feeble hp. How often the DM allow the party to suddenly withdraw, because the wizard has run out of spells? Go adventuring alone often?  As I stated before: the toolkit is "better" because the options are presented very clearly for spellcasters.  1) Up the number / duration of encounters. Eventually, the spells start to peter out, and if the encounters stay highly unpredictable, spellcasters will become more conservative with spells.2) I'm not accusing anyone of being a bad DM: I'm saying DM's often put far more time into creating and maintaining their campaign than players are willing to appreciate. Players need to wake up, and help the DM to help them. DM's need all the help they can get: keeping notes, making maps, and helping to define the world. 3) It isn't unreasonable, as a DM, to flex things to help the fighter or rogue along: if they engage in the world around them, provide them with powerful connections. They, too, could sign agreements and contracts with angelic or demonic forces. That they can't summon them themselves, doesn't prevent them from hiring someone else to do so, or meet them while otherwise adventuring.  Yep, my main secondary complaint on spellcasting, is the ability to negate skill points and third is movement. I have no problem with artillery. Because you can't do everything at once.Just as Gestalt characters are not really twice as powerful in combat. Even during downtime, actions are limited in time. Sure, the spellcaster can short cut and use spells to achieve a huge amount in a very short period of time, if he chooses. But they need to be wary for having a reserve available, should some unexpected emergency appear. Restrict the spellcaster's flexibility, by applying some of the idea's presented.In adventuring mode: more encounters, more lengthy encounters, more skill challenges, more time-dependant adventuring. Less time for recouperation over several days. Sure, the wizard could teleport everyone over the grand canyon, but is it the best use of party resources?I don't know. Sometimes, I think it comes down to the player's perception of their own contribution. It isn't easy.</blockquote>

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