Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 8392596" data-attributes="member: 6750235">On the flip side, the JOAT is better at many things than a specialized class.  Paladins and clerics are generally not stealthy and barbarians tend to be terrible healers.  When comparing 2 classes what each cannot do is still important even in a "balanced" party.The traditional D&D party is still the fighter, wizard, cleric, and rogue.  Throw the bard in there and the fighter fights better than the bard, but the bard CC's better and heals better and applies ability checks better.  The bard applies skill better than the cleric or wizard while being good enough in either's typical role.  The bard is almost as good at skills as the rogue but gets back to better healing and CC.You have a party of 5 that covers 4 traditional roles twice over instead of needing 8 characters.  It doesn't matter if the cleric can heal better because the cleric only has so many actions in a round.  The cleric and bard both healing covers more healing faster.  It doesn't matter if the wizard can apply status effects better because the wizard only has so many actions in a round and the bard also applying status effects covers more control faster.  It doesn't matter if the rogue has a reliable talent when both are trying to be stealthy because that's 2 characters increasing the likelihood of success in a group check or sending back up with the scout.What matters is the JOAT/MON needs to be proficient enough in enough variety to be useful regardless of not being the best.  Your assessment missed the JOAT helping exceed the limitations of the specialists by applying more party actions when it matters because of the limits imposed by action economy.The playability of a JOAT is great because they almost always have something more useful to contribute to a situation than the specialist who aren't as applicable to as many situations.  5e did a great job with the bard because all bards will have healing via song of rest and can add more, all bards have strong skill benefits, all bards have some combat ability and can add more, and all bards have decent spellcasting ability.  Add in the degree of customization on the class and an iconic ability in inspiration and it's a good JOAT.</blockquote>

Verification