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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blackbrrd" data-source="post: 6211204" data-attributes="member: 63962">I agree with your basic point: getting the math right is really important. (Especially the note about monsters in 4e vs 3e is something I have come to realize myself).At the same time, it's not THE most important part. Having perfect math doesn't help if the system is too clunky. Or too shallow. Which is part of what the wanted to find out in the play tests. 5e looks to be pretty fast, not clunky and not shallow.4e had some "balance" problems as well. The basic "math" of of skill challenges and higher level play didn't work out. They added the "expertise" feats and their kind (defense feats) to make the math work. A shame in my opinion. The game would have been better without it. In addition, 4e is "clunky". Fights last a too long without fiddling with the system. Higher level play suffers from too many conditions. Stun/Blind/Daze galore. So, a game that prioritized math, got it slightly wrong and ended up being much to clunky.So, yeah, the math is really important and I really hope they manage to get it right in 5e. That it wasn't priortized higher in the play test is understandable in my opinion.</blockquote>